Building At The Edges | Jess Sloss, Seed Club

[00:00] Okay. [00:01] No longer a Botox drug. [00:03] Virgin. I got Botox this week. I'm getting it done in Nashville because it's half the price to New York City. And I knew Dina had a trusted... [00:14] lady woman person and I went in there and I had when I like you know you have to fill out all these forms the medical forms. [00:21] like a procedure. And I had to say how I heard about them. So I obviously said you, and I walked in and it's very chic. It's very cool. And I walked in and the lady was like, [00:31] "Hi Natasha." And I was like, "Hi." And she was like, [00:34] So Dina recommended us? And I knew that they actually knew you. Otherwise, they'd say my name wrong. They'd say Deanna. Yeah. And so I was like, oh, she actually knows you. And she was like, she's an OG. We love her. And then I was like, oh, wow. They're like, no, Dina. And then my nurse practitioner, who's actually going to do my Botox, she was like, oh, so Dina recommended you. We love her. Oh, I love that. And I was like, every single person here knows Dina. She is a valued customer. I mean, the amount of money that I've dropped. Oh, certainly. I should hope so. I should hope so. [01:04] hello i'm natasha hoskins i'm dina burke and this is boys club wait is it just boys club it's just boys club the boys club podcast no no [01:17] Just boy stuff. [01:19] And I can't move my eyebrows and it feels perfect. It's great. High recommendation for anybody who's just feeling like they need a little touch up. It's so funny because my experience was – [01:27] First starting to get those types of procedures in upstate New York when I was living in Kingston. Yeah. And I had a place in Kingston.

[01:34] The meds spot? The meds spot. That was really cheap. Really, really, really cheap. Sure, cheap. [01:38] And that's like they – [01:42] My first experience with Botox. Um... [01:45] And they were so cheap and so great. And the doctor actually was the guy who also did my serene. [01:54] It was so. Your OBGYN is also. Yeah. [01:59] So he did both my Syrian and my Botox. This man is an ally to women everywhere. Yeah. He also ended up being kind of problematic. But. Oh, whoopsie. Honestly, not surprising. I know. Totally. And so when I moved to Nashville. Uh huh. [02:15] And I found this place. I was like, man, this is pricey. [02:18] Oh. Compared to Kingston, New York. Yeah, yeah. But I guess compared to... Oh, half the price. Half the price. [02:25] It's $13 a milliliter here. [02:28] A syringe. [02:29] And it's 24 in New York. Wow. Yeah. Were you just like going to some like Tribeca, fancy Tribeca place? Um... [02:37] Well, okay. Was it in Tribeca? Oh, we're really getting it. So there's one Tribeca, one on Upper Side. Recommendation for friends. What recommendation for friends? Okay, what I mean, those are the two most expensive neighborhoods. Also, it is... [02:49] It's a state... [02:50] or no city. I did, I did my research in the city. They can, um, [02:57] the way that they, it's like a, [02:58] Oh my God, like a pharmaceutical. So the price is set. [03:02] It's not like you can go to somewhere cheaper. Oh, I see. So like, it doesn't matter. So where you're going is actually just like,

[03:09] a nicer place or not. Okay, interesting. [03:12] Wow. That's a far reaching hand of the government. Yeah. I'm like, oh, does my insurance cover this? [03:20] Oh, okay. Okay. All right. So on today's podcast, we – oh. [03:26] What's the voice club, Natasha? I think we should cut this bit. [03:29] Okay. So I asked my husband if we should cut this bit. Okay. And I was like, Dina thinks it's tired. [03:34] What's Boys Club? And he was like, [03:36] Um, [03:38] He was like, you guys are probably tired of it. But for the listener, it's fun. Okay. So we're tired of explaining it, maybe. I'm not. I think it's fun. Okay, what's voice coaching? Oh, shit. [03:49] Boys Club is a... [03:53] a community of people learning together in web three and seeing what commercial opportunities come out of that. Nice. So that looks like this podcast, a newsletter products, events, tons of events. Um, yeah, [04:06] Anything else? [04:07] NFTs at one point, maybe again. Who knows? Who knows? [04:11] Yeah. Okay, great. So would your mom track with that? [04:14] Amen. [04:15] Yeah! [04:17] Yeah, what businesses and opportunities come out of a group of people getting together and talking about something. Great. Totally. The Dow thing, which is fine. [04:27] Because the Tao thing, I'm like, what? Totally. [04:31] Man, there's so much I want to talk to you about. [04:35] Having Thanksgiving with my family? Having Thanksgiving with your parents. I'm dying to hear it. Like when I came here today, I thought you would immediately be like, debrief moment, but you jumped right in. One of my favorite moments was –

[04:44] Your mom's. [04:46] mom's fasting book, a book on fasting. My grandma's. Your grandma's. Yeah. A book on fasting. Fasting. You know what? You know why they would understand a community getting together, looking for commercial opportunities? They're Christians. Christians are excellent at this. [05:01] Okay. So on today's podcast, we had Jess Sloss. [05:04] Who is, I don't know exactly what he calls himself at C-Club. Chief Innovation Officer? No. Instigator. But I think he's one of the founders. He's a founder. He's a founder. Jess, we're very close with. We love C-Club. We went through C-Club. C-Club is a DAO for DAOs. [05:24] Yeah. They're the YC of Web3. Yeah. And we talked about that. We talked about that with Jess, about like what the difference is between something that looks like a DAO accelerator versus like a traditional DAO. [05:35] um, [05:36] startup accelerator, like a YCE type thing. [05:40] If you have been wondering what C-Club is, [05:43] Or what a DAO is. This is a great lesson. This is a great podcast. Pokenized communities versus traditional businesses. Yeah, like product-led businesses. [05:51] Yeah. Software startups. [05:52] So that was great. And then we talked about Web3 Native Media. [05:57] between us. [05:59] In our conversation. Yep. [06:00] You and me talked about whether we... [06:04] Yeah. [06:05] What the podcast is? We talked about what Web3 Native Media is and then what this podcast is. Yeah. It was in the feelings check-in too. So it was a lot of that. Yeah.

[06:19] Lots of open queues. Many open queues. Many... [06:25] What I find interesting and honestly what I do love about this work is like you do the work and then you get to the other side of the work and there's more work. [06:35] And that's the truth. Is that not the truth? It's the truth. Yeah. It's the truth. It's the truth. And I love it. Like I was honestly talking to a friend the other day and they were talking about work and – [06:47] They... [06:49] She was saying something and my husband was there and he was like, I was like, oh, because what she was talking about was like basically how little how quickly she could get her job done. [06:57] And [06:59] Tasha was so happy about that. [07:00] And Matt was like, wow, you probably don't relate. [07:03] to this at all. And I was like, yeah, I like honestly do not relate to that because like, I was like, yeah, like you, [07:08] have hit the jackpot of doing work that doesn't feel like work. [07:11] And I'm like, yeah, that's actually really true. Like I really, really, really love it. [07:15] And like... [07:16] Because of that, it doesn't feel like I'm showing up to a job. [07:20] And should be grateful for that. Should be really grateful for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, this is, I guess... [07:26] This is the Thanksgiving episode. This is the gratitude episode. [07:32] Okay. So speaking of gratitude, shout out to Moonpay. [07:35] Shout out to MoonPay. Podcast sponsors. Podcast sponsors. The reason why my dad doesn't know you is because he doesn't listen to this podcast. If he did listen to this podcast, he would know that MoonPay, he was like, what's MoonPay? And I was like, oh, it's the leading Web3 infrastructure for payments in Web3. It's actually a great place to buy and sell crypto assets. Yes. You can use your credit card. You can use your debit card. It's very, very easy, fast, simple, easy.

[07:58] Great interface. [08:00] Great for newbies. Go check it out. Moonpay.com. [08:08] Okay, on today's show, we have Jess Sloss, who is the chief instigator at Seed Club. Seed Club we love. So Seed Club, they call themselves the Internet Native Accelerator. I'll let Jess explain what they do. But all that to say, we love Seed Club. And we went through, Boys Club went through Seed Club, and we're huge fans. So we'll talk about that. But welcome to the show, Jess. [08:31] Hello, hello. Glad to be here. Yeah, we're excited to have you. Okay, so explain the tweet. We're going to do explain the tweet with you today. We have a tweet. You are coming in blind to the tweet that you're going to be explaining, which I think is going to add to the magic. Okay, so you tweeted it. To be fair, it is his pinned tweet, so if he's not familiar with it, then... Okay, I'm familiar now. That's good. He's familiar. He's advertising something in the tweet. Okay. [08:58] Why Combinator? [09:01] orange emoji, make something people want. [09:04] Seed Club. [09:05] sprout emoji, make something people want to be a part of. [09:09] Natasha, what's your level of comprehension on this tweet? Okay, so on the most... [09:14] On like a few layers, I'm totally tracking. But on a deeper layer, I'm not... [09:21] I have some questions. I think you're tracking. I think you're tracking. Oh, totally tracking. My question is, and we've talked about this before, but...

[09:31] when you make something people want, they pay for it. So this is my question for you. But I'll let you take it away and... [09:39] And tell us what's going on here. [09:40] Well, I was sitting in the bath one night thinking about Y Combinator as one does. They've obviously built an incredible organization. And their tagline is make something people want. And I think it's sort of a call to builders to focus on the important things, right? Which is build something that people want, that's useful, that yes, they'll pay for. And I think I'm always interested in sort of what the meaningful difference between what maybe a traditional startup is and what a DAO is. [10:10] something people want to be a part of, I think captures that difference pretty effectively. [10:16] I think what we're seeing in the market and I think what we're collectively helping to prove out is that there is a way of creating value in the world around the sort of deeper sense of membership and engagement and alignment in a big adventure, as we call it at C Club, right? This big thing that we want to see, a change we want to see in the world or a thing that we want to invite people to be a part of, you know, the relationship. [10:40] the joys and the risks that entail sort of pursuing that big adventure. So I think, you know, especially when I think about boys club, like there are many things that you're going to go build and that people will, will want and will pay for and want to use, but there's this bigger thing, right? There's this being a part of the boys club community, the movement, the tough to define kind of cloud of excitement that you see, whether that's, you know, people wanting to join an NFT collective or join something like friends with benefits or be a part of something like seed club.

[11:10] Designing that experience and community layer that ultimately, I think, creates value now that we have these tools like tokens and Web3. [11:19] There it is. Yeah, there it is. I'm curious how much of like... [11:25] the difference... [11:27] between these two... [11:29] Y Combinator and Z Club. [11:31] is... [11:33] enabled by Web3? Like the ladder, how much of the ladder is enabled by Web3? [11:37] Thank you. [11:38] Well, like there isn't a good [11:40] method or technology to actually distribute [11:44] ownership in a meaningful way outside of Web3, right? So this idea of there's like, yeah, you could go launch a community and people would want to be a part of that community. And I think what we're seeing here is that there's [11:56] There's now this way for people to have a stake in and own a piece of and have a say in these new types of organizations. And what are the next order impacts that happen when people feel that sense of alignment and ownership? And I think that's sort of what we're exploring right now. Yeah. [12:15] Yeah, I'd say like all of it. [12:17] In the fullest way. Yeah, yeah, totally. Jess, can you just give a briefing on what C-Club is for listeners who might not be familiar? Yeah. [12:25] Sure. So C-Club is, we call ourselves the internet native accelerator. We're a DAO that helps, um, [12:32] projects and builders like yourself figure out how to launch DAOs so maybe a DAO accelerator or the reason for that tweet earlier was people were always referring to C-Club as like the Y Combinator for DAOs or Y Combinator for Web3 so we run cohorts where our community helps to select the most exciting communities or DAOs to join us for a 12-week accelerator program where we dive into everything from token design legal community management structure etc but I

[13:02] same path together trying to do this weird wild thing of launching a tokenized community or a DAO which as I know you know and have talked about many times here on the pod is a weird and kind of challenging thing to do exciting as well and so yeah you know there's there's a lot of other things that we do at C club to support that both through our media efforts and through you know different tools and mechanisms for actually supporting our teams to actually create and [13:32] of collaborators who support those builders. And it is kind of an interesting thing because we're both building the thing and then supporting others to build the thing at the same time. I think all this stuff is still emergent and still very much being figured out. But I think that's why it works, right? Like the original inspiration was... [13:51] We saw an opportunity for culture and social capital to be represented in tokens and had no idea how to go do that. And so by far the best way to do that, in our opinion, was to work with people who saw a similar vision and were pushing at their own edges. And so we've been sort of learning partners from day one. I think I often like to describe it as like a sense-making network. The world is changing so much. We're learning so much. How do we go do that and sort of inform the core and support the next wave of builders as well? [14:21] And I think our model really aligns itself with that. And, you know, super excited that as you say, this boys club goes out and learns the unique things that boys club learns that we have a model where you can bring that back into C club and you can support the next wave of builders who are going to use that insight to push at their own edges. Yeah.

[14:38] Yeah, I think for Dina and I, when people ask us about our experience at C-Club, the thing that I always say was one of the most valuable aspects of it was that like all of the things that we're trying to figure out right now, whether it be like token distribution or onboarding contributors or what the value of like our network is, like everybody who... [14:58] We... [15:00] that was like coming into Seed Club or Seed Club itself, like you guys have been, or those projects, were dealing with those same problems. Like... [15:07] three months ago or six months ago. Like there's such a... [15:11] connection to the pain point that we were experiencing that feels so different from a traditional like [15:19] Because it's not a very established business that's coming in. It's like we're all figuring this out together and having that like, just like visceral nature of how tough something can be and that being so close to the advice that you're getting felt really interesting. [15:34] special and felt very different from what I like didn't anticipate that. So that was, that was great. [15:39] I love hearing that. I think the challenge is that this stuff is still... [15:44] so uncertain, right? We're still trying to figure it all out. And, you know, every three months, every six months, a new mechanism or model comes out. And, you know, that's the... [15:53] How do you stay up to date on all of that unless you have just this network of human beings that are focused on that constantly? Jess, can I poke a little bit at the intersection of DAOs and business models? [16:05] like businesses and like money, I suppose.

[16:09] So when you were talking about sort of what C-Club is and sort of what you personally stand for, and I think what C-Club stands for is this idea of like value accruing into a community and accruing in and around a network. And I think like... [16:23] I'm definitely shocking. I'm definitely there with you. I think where it starts to... [16:30] where... [16:31] Like... [16:32] I start to like question is around, [16:36] What [16:38] like how we're defining community. And also when you introduce... [16:42] Like... [16:43] Because I think communities can... [16:45] form very naturally around... [16:47] movements, social movements, um, [16:51] different ideas, philosophies, things like that. Like that all feels like [16:55] I totally get that. When you introduce like commerce into the equation, when you introduce like money, I think communities start to... [17:03] Is that a community? Is that an audience? How, what does that relationship look like? And I guess I'm just like, [17:09] we're always looking at that boundary between Dow and business. And I'm wondering... [17:15] how you look at it and if you have any advice for us. I always have advice apparently for you guys. I don't know how useful it is. But, well, I mean, I think like it's a mistake to assume that communities, you know, in maybe Web 2 or a more traditional sense don't have commerce or economics built in. You know, they do. And, you know, that looks like many different things, whether it's advertisements or sponsorships or, you know, people...

[17:41] promoting their goods or services within it. I think that what we're exploring here is like, okay, well, what happens when there's these new financial tools for folks to sort of try to generate new resources to go and build towards whatever that goal or adventure or mission that the community has is. So is it the right thing for all communities? No. You know, I think we just need to... [18:03] take a... [18:05] more nuanced look at this. So I think it is sort of a net new type thing, right? I think we've seen a lot of communities or other teams that go out there and say, well, let's go find the biggest existing communities and we'll layer crypto on top of it and everything's going to be good. And it just isn't really working and there's a lot of weird sort of incentives that emerge there. But I think, you know, if you look at Web2, you sort of have two things. One, either the platform captures all the value that exists there. So you're building a lovely Facebook group or LinkedIn group. [18:32] Maybe you're benefiting from attention, but the economics are being driven mostly at the network level. [18:41] charging for subscriptions, etc. And then there's like a core team that's sort of profiting from that, even though the community is the group that's actually creating value. It's the many to many connections that emerge there. And of course, there's like a lot of value to be had in those communities. And again, I don't think all communities should be DAOs by any means. But I think if you ask the question, like what happens when we introduce a native asset, a digitally native asset that represents a [19:02] this meme or culture or brand or community that we're building, what might that enable? And I think what we're seeing is that that enables, you know, resources. So there's the ability to either use that token to reward and incentivize people or to turn that token into capital of some sort. So you can actually pay people to do things. When you have this deep sense of ownership and alignment there, I think people will lean in. I mean, I think your community is a great example of that.

[19:32] be a part of this thing and support it. And I think, you know, that's also a core piece of, you know, what would lead to a valuable token and also why a token might be useful and sort of furthering that value loop. So I think there's... [19:43] You know, this is sort of a net new thing. I think it looks a lot more like a new type of startup than it looks like a... [19:51] you know, the evolution of a Facebook group or a Patreon. And they should be approached the same way. And yeah, I think like the challenge that many teams are in right now is thinking through, okay, well, like... [20:03] What is the there there? Like, how do we turn this into something sustainable? And I think what's most interesting to me is if you look at the top 20 crypto assets or you look at, like, why are tokens valuable? At the core... [20:15] You could call it a meme or you could call it community. This is the thing that is driving value. So whether that's Bitcoin, you know, and why is Bitcoin valuable? It's because people think it's valuable. You know, there's a lot underpinning that without a doubt that kind of supports that narrative. But there's very much a meme that has been formed here that is... [20:34] will this thing out of nothing into existence. And I think if you look down the list, you know, what we're talking about, Cardano or, you know, XRP or I mean, Shiba and Dogecoin are two top 20 tokens as well. Like these are just [20:47] This is mutual belief. Now, is that the most sustainable thing long term? I don't know. But if we look at some of the other examples that are emerging in the space, say NounsDAO, where the whole idea is that these tokens are going to represent ownership in this DAO and that DAO's purpose is to fund the proliferation of this meme, it's a pretty clear, direct shot at that assumption that if something is...

[21:10] you know, um, [21:11] popular and understood and broadly disseminated through culture that there's probably something of value there. And I think when we look at the lens there, it can feel like, you know, there isn't a whole lot of solid ground to stand on. But if you look at some of the most exciting brands in the world, most valuable brands in the world, they have that lovely line item called Goodwill. So what is, you know, what is the value of Coca-Cola, right? It's the brand of Coca-Cola, Virgin of Red Bull. These are commodity products that have this big brand value put on top. And I think what we're seeing here is these new brands. [21:40] you know tokens tools kind of allow us to expand on that iterate on that maybe be even more direct in representing that value [21:50] So, [21:52] So like something when I think about Jess, I'm like, okay, this guy, he has a deep belief in like networks, the network. Yeah. [22:00] is the value. Like that's sort of how I think you think about it. Correct me if I'm wrong. And then the work is to figure out like, [22:09] what the long-term work, I guess, is to figure out what drives that value sustainably. Would you say that that's accurate? [22:16] Yeah, I think that's good. [22:18] Okay. And so when... [22:22] at Seed Club, when you're, like, looking at these different projects, like... [22:25] everybody has to do the same sort of work. Like there's like the community building aspect, which people are going to be successful at or not. And like some communities will start to click and it'll make sense. And there'll be this like,

[22:40] collective forming around it. And that also build a brand. And then when that work is done, there's like a second layer, I feel like. And that work is like, how do we figure out [22:53] what drives... [22:54] basically the token value, right? [22:59] I think that's the phase we're in. I don't know if you're asking me or if you're asking Jess, but I feel like you're speaking to the problem that we have right now. Yeah, and I think it's a problem that like – I think we – [23:11] have been successful at forming a community. I think we've been successful at building a brand and that's really exciting. And that's not lost on me that that feels like lightning in a bottle. [23:19] And then there's like the second layer of like, how do you figure out how you drive the token? And for me, it's just like, that is a really big question around, [23:28] Is that about... [23:29] Does that just become about like launching lots of stuff and then you're managing liquidity of your token? Or is it having one like shot that is like super clear that then keeps the token value up? And so I'm curious, like... [23:43] for Boys Club, obviously, but more generally as someone who has, like, this deep belief in networks and looking across all of these different projects and communities that are solving for this problem in many different phases, what your, like, point of view on that is. And if whether it's, like... [23:57] many shots or if it's like one direct thing. [24:01] I feel like we had this conversation last week. I know, we did. I love it. I was like, we just need to have you on the podcast. Well, so, I mean, maybe it's helpful to sort of, like, explain how I've been thinking about it for C-Club. Yeah. Because I think these pieces are super relevant for you all as well and many other builders. Yeah.

[24:19] And it was funny because I think I remember drawing this out. [24:23] probably in the earliest days of C Club and it just became so ingrained in how I viewed what we were trying to build that I realized I hadn't even communicated it more fully. And it's probably a blog post in here somewhere. But, you know, there's sort of these three pieces like value drivers to the C Club network. So the core C Club is a network. That network, people have governance in that network through holding club tokens. And we use the resources of that network to [24:47] pay for contributors, to host events, to sort of operate the organization. And so [24:56] you know, that when we're doing new things, what we really want to do is have, you know, at least one of these pillars kind of be the focus of any initiative. And so those three pillars for us are number one, membership, right? So if we have... [25:06] you know, tokens out in the world, so we have a thousand NFTs. If there's 1500 or 2000 people who want to be a governor and owner of this thing, there's there's [25:16] demand for this token and therefore that token will be valuable it's supply over demand over supply it is truly that simple right yeah um and so i think like so the question for us is like okay well how do we what what is membership how do we drive useful membership how do we continue to increase the value and and thus the demand of people wanting to be a part of this and so of course that touches on your token model um but it doesn't have to be as direct as like super limited supply market the hell out of it and you know and so we think about that as like we want to find [25:46] to be a part of our accelerator. We want to find the best [25:49] the folks who can support those builders as best as possible. And that if we get that right, there's going to be a consistent demand for other builders who want to come and join C-Club. And, and I think we can expand that more just to other communities.

[26:02] audiences or cohorts as we sort of see fit, but we've really focused on that builder collaborator as the core of the network right now. So membership is number one. Two is resources, right? Why would people want to join a network if there aren't resources to support their growth and development? So we want to make sure that there are resources within our network to be able to support that work. And so in part that is... Shout out to the... [26:21] C-Club resources and network just unstoppable. You guys have, like, it's amazing. So kudos to you for that. Well, and thank you for being a part of it. You are now a core partner. You see membership kind of working right there, right? Imagine having Natasha and Dina in your corner here. Like, I know a lot of people listening would be ecstatic at that. And we are. And so I think the other part of resources is thinking through, okay, well, you know, how do we... [26:44] For many teams, they might just be rewarding people for work with their token. And that's, I think, working well for somebody like Gitcoin. We always thought that, how do we actually ensure that we're driving value back to this network or creating value as a network? And so for teams that come in and join C-Club, they're contributing a small portion of their tokens to the C-Club network. And it just seemed like a very clear way for us to say, well, there's time and effort being put into here.

[27:14] And of course, there are many other things that we'll look at. So whether there's other cohorts we do that we might charge for, or there's events that we do, or there's media we do, like, I think you can take a pretty broad view. But the idea being, we get membership right, and we have a game plan for resources. Okay, that's directionally correct. And the third piece is distribution, right? So people, we want it for somebody to plug into the C club network. And that's really how I view it, right? Teams like yourselves are sort of plugging into this growing, moving, sense making network. And you'll only do that if there's like a lot of value to do that. [27:44] And so for us, distribution is, are we giving teams a bigger platform? [27:49] Are we helping to popularize this idea of community-owned networks or DAOs? [27:54] And so that's really where our media team is focused. You know, we do a lovely podcast called Building at the Edges. Just going to plug that here. Give it a listen every Thursday. Link in show notes. Link in show notes. But, you know, and I think that's through... [28:07] through our PR efforts, that's through events that we do, that's through the dinners we host. There's just a whole host of that, right? And we're very focused on both trying to drive that top of funnel awareness, but also in very tactical things that are bringing incredible human beings deeper and deeper into our network. I know, Natasha, we had a lovely dinner last Thursday, which is, you know, [28:26] just one of the many types of things that we do that are trying to, to sort of build out that distribution. So membership, [28:33] resources and distribution and if you look at anything that we've done as an organization what we're trying to do is create flywheels between those ones right so the the you know the better we are at distribution and resourcing the better we're going to be at building a members the better we are building bringing in members the more our token will be in demand and therefore have um you know uh the resources to be able to to compensate and reward folks for the the value they're creating to the network and the more all that sort of stuff works

[28:58] together, the more people are like, wow, there's so much momentum coming from C-Club. I have to pay this more attention than I am right now. Amazing. Thank you so much. It's so useful to see it like broken out. And I feel like you've articulated some of the things that Natasha and I've been like grasping at, but not really being able to like pull together into coherent words. So I think it's really, it's really useful to hear. I think the grasping is the piece here, right? Like none of this stuff like fits into the easy box right now. So you have to be so comfortable with [29:29] Like I say... [29:30] Two things that I probably should never say if you're leading a project, but I say we don't know what the heck we're talking about, first of all, right? And I think that's not to say that we don't know things, but it's just the right mental model to be in right now. So we're always exploring. And then, too, I say we feel our way or muddle our way in. And it's like you put something out into the world, learn from it, move forward. I think there's just this... [29:51] fear in many cases that if you put something out and it doesn't work or if you get your token wrong or if you don't, that the world is completely over. And the reality is the value that you're building here is of trust and of... [30:02] And it's a social value. And if you have that, which is, you know, you can just go back to the Ethereum [30:09] fork, right? The reason that that happened was because there was social consensus that this move is going to happen and people are going to back it up. That happens... [30:17] every day in smaller ways within these organizations. And so there's just many, you know, a lot more flexibility, I think, than people realize. And I remember sitting there [30:25] with launching C Club on Argon back in the beginning of 2021. I think it was like the biggest thing ever. And that if I got this wrong, the world is gonna be over, et cetera. And we don't even use that token anymore. I look at that moment of being like, are you, who, like what?

[30:40] It was such the smallest little baby part that meant nothing. Like all these other things are so much harder. And we had the ability to sort of maneuver as the space changes. [30:50] Yeah. Just go do the thing. Yeah. Um, [30:54] Okay, so just in closing, and we're going to have to have you back on to talk some more about this because there's no way we can fit all the things we're going to talk about in 20 minutes. But I want to, I know you have a really unique vantage point. [31:07] Ask Jess. [31:08] sitting across all these... Is the joke that he's tall? Is there a joke? I don't know. I thought that was your joke. Oh, okay, great. Yeah, totally. I can look down on things. [31:21] And you get obviously a ton of applications for your accelerator. You're just very much in this network. And you have... [31:30] this incredible viewpoint. And I'm curious, like, [31:33] I mean, in our cohort, we had some wild projects. Like cloud computing embedded in natural... Plants. In plants. So there's some crazy stuff that comes through, and it's so awesome to see. What are some of the things that... [31:46] You're like, well, there's the question of what are you excited about? And then there's a question about like what's some wild and wacky stuff that's happening in this space right now that you – [31:54] um, [31:54] Can share. [31:57] Yeah, so I think the privilege... I sit in a very privileged seat, and I, honest to God, have no idea how I got here, and I think... [32:05] the the universe on a regular basis for that both get to sit working with early stage builders get to sit working with incredible our contributors collaborators people who are building incredible projects out in the world and then also you know we have C club ventures which is its own venture fund and I get to see people building the deep tools text protocols there as well and so it is it is kind of wild and I think like the the thing that's

[32:29] Probably, maybe I'm just going to twist your question a little bit. The thing that is most exciting to me right now is I'm starting to see a lot of new language emerge and people put words to this sort of intuition that I think a lot of people have had in the space in the last little while. And so a specific shout out to Toby Shorn and the post-after lifestyle Lincoln show notes. [32:59] Um, [32:59] you know, culture and the business of culture. And, and I think, you know, so, so what I'm seeing now is like a, a lot of people who've sort of been, [33:08] Uh, [33:09] Well, I like being underestimated. It's one of my favorite things ever because I just get to sit back and be like, oh, just you wait. And I think it's very easy to look at some of the communities that are coming through C-Club and be like – [33:20] How is that a thing that's going to be super valuable or impactful in the world? And, you know, I think people looked at friends with benefits like that early on or a Gitcoin like that early on. And what we're seeing is just like these, you know, these cultures or these communities, these movements that are able to issue these tokens that represent the collective efforts of folks. And then people now start to see them having real sustained impact in the economy. [33:50] or crowd sales, these teams that are doing these crazy things. Like, you can go buy an NBA sports franchise. [33:55] Really? Is that a thing you're going to go do? Or yes, Grow Your Own Cloud is talking about embedding. They can truly embed data into the DNA of plants that you can then create a seed from, plant it, and then your picture NFT is stored in this hydrangea that's growing out in your yard. That's crazy. So I think I just stayed in this position where we're at C-Club because of the nature of our organization. We can go be a part of a ton of really random, interesting things because we see that kernel of potential there.

[34:25] that are emerging or just teams that are saying, hey, like the advertising and marketing world is totally broken and we can go build better tools and also better work environments for folks to participate in that. Or folks are trying to reinvent the supply chain. You know, there's, you know, we have the Crypto Besties team as part of this current group. They're like, hey, like, what is a consumer packaged goods brand focused on, you know, advertising? [34:48] bringing novel interesting projects to the world or products the world look like so you know there is no consistent piece here uh though we do have a fair number of music projects um because i think that industry is just so broken that people are willing to go take a lot more uh risk out in the space um but i expect that to sort of continue throughout the the various categories and um we like weird weird is good weird is good um jess thank you so much thank you jess so fun to have you on we didn't do feelings [35:18] I was promised a feelings check-in. Oh, I forgot. Sure, we don't typically do feelings check-ins with guests, but do you have any feelings to share with us? You don't? Oh, I was promised a feelings check-in. I was. I'm sorry. I told him last week we were doing a feelings check-in live. [35:33] - [35:35] - Okay, Jess, let's hear it. Let's hear your feelings. [35:39] I'm caffeinated. I know that's not a feeling, but that's how my body feels right now. A sensation, maybe. It's more of a sensation. I feel slightly overwhelmed when I look at my calendar. I was away last week and now it's a little too much, but I've turned, I've, I've. [35:52] I'm very proud of myself. I've turned to some friends on the internet to help me try to figure out how to tame this because obviously something's not working.

[36:00] And... [36:01] Feeling... [36:06] appreciation. Oh, great. [36:11] What a... [36:13] Just excellent feelings check-in. Our feelings check-ins are usually like, we don't know what we're doing. [36:20] Yeah, you're bringing us home on a high note, which I really appreciate. And honestly, it feels true to your character too. You feel like a super optimistic guy. [36:28] I think it's caffeinated, overwhelmed, and appreciative is probably the right Venn diagram for me. Maybe we have a podcast episode name right there. [36:39] Thank you so much, Jess. This is so great. [36:42] Appreciate you guys and thank you so much for being part of the C-Club Adventure. [36:51] Hi. Hi. Here we are. Okay. So, DAO update. [36:59] Tao thinking [37:02] Where should we start? [37:05] I can't remember what we said we were gonna talk about. -Uh... -Oh, I do remember. Okay. [37:10] So, [37:11] As everybody knows, we've been thinking a lot about media. [37:16] Web3 Media. Well, Media. Media. That is actually what we're going to talk about. [37:21] is like... [37:23] what... [37:25] is distinctly different about Web3 Media versus Web3. [37:29] Media. Uh-huh. And –

[37:32] as we're starting to [37:34] bake this idea more. [37:36] the tension that exists between, do you just like heads down work, work, [37:42] on... [37:44] block and tackle on what would be traditional... [37:47] media work, like traditional media properties, [37:50] traditional revenue streams for a media business, which look like partnerships and sponsorships and advertising dollars and like all of those things that... Maybe subscriptions... [38:00] Maybe subscriptions. Maybe data play. Maybe data play. Great. [38:04] Which exists within all of the Web2 Media. Well-formed. Yes. Well-formed paths. Well-formed paths. [38:13] somewhat reliable in the sense of like, you know what you're getting and what the expectations are. Yeah. [38:17] Thank you. [38:19] Do you do that? [38:21] And then... [38:23] Look for while you're doing that work where the Web3 thinking comes in or... [38:32] Do you need to have... [38:35] some like thoughtfulness around... [38:38] the Web3 [38:39] container, compensation, relationship to partners – [38:44] like revenue streams, [38:47] NFTs, all these things. [38:49] Baked. [38:51] prior to... [38:53] really going for it on the media front. And I think... [38:56] We're trying to sort through that right now. [38:58] I want to just like back up for a second. [39:01] Let's back it up. And just zoom out and say that one of the things that were...

[39:05] Thinking about one of the things that there's a lot of energy around, [39:08] in the Boys Club universe is the idea of creating a media company. [39:14] that's born from the DAO, but probably a separate entity, where we look at creating a... [39:23] a series of media properties that is... [39:27] sort of under the umbrella of this idea of the cut for the new internet, right? Like how do we, what's like a fresh sort of female centered take on- [39:37] This new economy that's emerging. Yeah. Yeah. [39:40] not necessarily for women, but like, not necessarily written by women, but just having that sort of voice at the center. Lens. And also, actually more than it being gendered, it's really about sort of, [39:50] the boys club worldview being this sort of like irreverent, [39:54] deeply fun-loving [39:56] Not too serious. Not taking ourselves too seriously, but also like wanting to be curious and informed and smart about what's happening in our world around us. [40:05] So, [40:07] That's what we've been thinking about building out. Yep. And it's starting to get a lot of energy around it, which is really exciting. And... [40:14] uh, [40:15] And so what you're saying is like, [40:19] okay, we have an idea for what the sort of creative banner is that all of this sits beneath. [40:25] And also like... [40:26] - Uh, [40:27] Sorry to interrupt, but like a big, [40:30] question mark and like thing that we couldn't push through that we finally have some thinking around is like, [40:35] what is that relationship to the Tao? What is the container that it lives within? Like all of those questions were really, really hard to figure out. And like, we're not a hundred percent there, but like,

[40:45] Some of those things that felt like major blockers to being able to move forward, I think we've gotten past. And so now it's exciting because we actually get to think about... [40:54] it as a media, like as its own property. [40:57] Now it's some new questions within sort of that container. Yeah. [41:02] Yes, there's been a lot of progress that's been made. Yeah. And so now we like have sort of the creative umbrella. We have a sense for what the container can be. [41:12] But there's this like kind of existential question now, which is like, okay, we've come up with a roadmap that looks – [41:17] kind of traditional, like kind of a traditional media company. Like we have like events, we have different media property expansions, like, um, more podcasts, other newsletters, different, like Twitch, whatever it is, like a bunch of other things that we've come up with. Um, and then different partnerships and brand partnerships and like the revenue looks very traditional. Yeah. [41:35] Trad revenue. Trad revenue. Now, it's not data revenue. Yeah. So I think – so when you were talking, I was like, okay. [41:44] we don't have like the killer idea for what makes this like inherently Web3. Yeah. [41:51] Of course, like NFTs and, you know, maybe there's something interesting around sort of NFT and subscription. And like, I'm sure we could come up with something around that fairly easily. But like, there's no like real big fundamental thing that like we're thinking about in the next year, at least. That's like totally fully native Web3. But what I will say is that I think that how we can approach it is like using the values of Web3.

[42:17] of sort of [42:18] Sure, decentralization. [42:20] but also like individual ownership and like data autonomy and data privacy and sort of bringing those through, at least in the beginning to sort of inform how this whole thing takes shape. [42:33] And, [42:34] I have to feel like with those values at the helm, like something will... [42:38] come together. Yeah. [42:40] I think. Yeah. I think that like, I don't know. I... [42:46] I was just listening to this podcast with Dax Shepard, who I like it. I know. I really like it. And you make me feel bad about it every single time. I just can't get on. It's a great podcast. It's like a number three podcast in the nation. So I'm not alone in this feeling. And he had Jerry Seinfeld on, who I love. And one of the things that he was talking about was like – [43:09] Whatever. How... [43:12] specifically like comedians and media around that has really evolved over the last 40 years or whatever since Jerry Seinfeld started. And one of the things that they were talking about is how like the – [43:22] the internet allowed for basically everybody to be in the newspaper. Like that's what sort of like it enabled. And so as they were talking about this, [43:30] this change, I was really thinking about like, okay, there's this new moment that's happening with Web3 and like the new internet that will be pivotal, as pivotal as like, [43:42] newspaper to the internet was whatever it was 30 years ago.

[43:47] And... [43:49] one of the things that they were talking about is like, [43:52] Self [43:53] Like... [43:54] the creation of your own brand, [43:57] They were talking about the like... [44:01] division within this country and, you know, [44:05] If... [44:06] And Jerry Seinfeld was like, there's actually not like a few divisions. There's like, if we're saying there's division, there's like 365 million divisions within this country because everybody has been given their own platform and their own ability to have their own brand and thinking. [44:18] And [44:21] There's something... [44:23] very powerful about that. And then they were talking about the monetization of media, specifically for comedians. And one of the things that he said was like, people... [44:33] now have a much easier way to make a living and monetize because of their ability to be supported by their niche community, like immediately, like they, [44:44] you have a following, you can monetize that following, you can create content for that following and like you can make a living. But Jerry Seinfeld was like, that doesn't, that actually doesn't make you a better comedian. Cause you're like, [44:55] you're creating for a very specific subset. Oh, interesting. Okay. And – Got it. [45:00] He was like, you know, when I was coming up, you would be thrown into these rooms that didn't even want to see a comedian. Like, it wasn't even about, like, and you had to win that room over. And that made me a better comedian. Okay. [45:09] the ability to have build around life, [45:13] Build an audience around your niche interests and voice and things like that is very powerful to monetize, but it might not make the product better. And...

[45:23] it got me thinking a lot about like, [45:25] what we've been talking about around like web three media and [45:29] Like, [45:30] individualized ability to monetize and be a creator and like, [45:36] That maybe just means you're producing like a lot of content that like, [45:41] is not great. And that's, I think, what you see when you go on the internet. Like, there's a lot of content that does not interest me. Yeah. And then there's... [45:47] very specific content that I'm obsessed with. And like, [45:50] I don't know, is that good or is that bad? And like, what does that mean in the context of building a media company? [45:55] within the mechanisms of... [45:58] Web3 where there's ownership and there's an ability to get even more and more and more [46:03] siloed [46:05] in what you produce. [46:07] That's completely like going on a tangent, but... [46:10] I do think there's something interesting in that for us to think about of like, [46:15] And we've even talked about it with like, [46:17] our interests are beyond... [46:19] just what Web3 enables and just crypto and like... [46:23] How does that play into [46:26] what we talk about and... [46:28] audience we're building. So I don't know. Yeah. It's at the content level, which is what you were just talking about. And it's also at like the infrastructure level for us as well. It's like, how is this Web3 native? Yeah. [46:38] Yeah. And then how are we [46:42] talking about things that are beyond just Web3. [46:45] Totally. And... [46:47] Exactly. And like, [46:49] I think those things actually relate to each other very deeply because it's like, we're actually interested in this stuff. We're interested in web three and DAOs and, and,

[46:59] all of the things that... [47:01] are possible within... [47:04] The technology that's been built [47:06] because of what it enables, like not just in and of itself. And when I look at a lot of other Web3 communities or Web3 media companies, like they're really interested [47:16] in the thing. They're like... The tech. They're interested in the tech. Yeah. And... [47:22] I'm not. I'm not. And so it means that there's a lot of white space to talk about things because it's all about how [47:34] they relate to this stuff. [47:38] relates to fashion and... [47:41] art and culture and sports and all this other stuff. Yeah. [47:45] So, and finance and, you know, traditional stuff that crypto likes to dig into. Anyway, so I'm really interested in this question of like... [47:54] I would love a little bit more baked thinking and more... [47:58] revenue, [48:00] Thank you. [48:01] generating plan on the roadmap that is, [48:04] feels more natively web three. I mean, I think one thing that we're sort of overstepping completely is that we are like, [48:12] um, [48:13] Like... [48:16] if and when we do build out this media company, we are recruiting talent from inside a community that has, like, incentive alignment. So I do think that there's something about the DAO that – [48:25] Totally. [48:27] It is negatively well-up three and is also like kind of a special secret sauce that we have in terms of all these like really talented creative people who are –

[48:35] in and around Boys Club that have incredible ideas and also like could potentially like build up media properties and do it with us. Yeah. Hey, Natasha. Yeah, Dina. Who is this podcast sponsored by? This podcast is brought to you by Moonpay. And it's very easy to be sponsored by someone when you legitimately like them and think that their product is really great. So here's the [49:05] of how cumbersome the onboarding of new people into crypto is. Even the simplest thing, like setting up a wallet or buying a token, can be so overwhelming. When you're first exploring crypto, this is basically all you're thinking about. MoonPay changes all of that. It's fast and simple and incredibly user-friendly. They make it so, so easy to jump into Web3. So easy that you can use your credit or debit card to buy and sell crypto and other digital collectibles. For all you crypto-native people out there, you know that this is an absolute rarity. [49:35] and loved by yours truly at Boys Club. Visit Moonpay.com to get started. We love you Moonpay. [49:42] Feelings. Time for feelings. Yeah. [49:46] What do you go first? I mean, we have the same feeling, so. I'm feeling a little bit like [49:51] I don't know what we're doing with this podcast. Yeah. Yeah. [49:55] We've doubled our numbers. [49:58] There's definitely some people that are listening regularly. Mm-hmm. [50:01] If that's you, thank you so much. We love you. I love, literally love.

[50:08] And people are like, well, this is a great podcast. We don't get very much feedback on what people like and what people, I mean, I think people like the feelings check in. [50:17] But like, [50:17] I don't know. I'm just feeling all of a sudden, you know what happened? I had a conversation with Sonal. [50:22] From A16Z. Yeah. She has built out. [50:26] Many media properties for Andreessen. Yeah. And she does it very well. She's very kind and very warm. She's wonderful. Yeah. [50:36] Shout out to Sonal. Yeah. [50:38] I had a conversation with her and she... [50:42] Um, [50:43] We were talking about – [50:46] We were talking about like... [50:48] This podcast and like we're sort of having like the start of like a little mini brainstorm about what it could become. [50:56] And... [50:57] She was like... [51:00] Great. We were sort of jamming on some things. And she was like, can you tell me, tell me your numbers? [51:05] And I told her our numbers and she was like, "Oh, okay." [51:08] So it's not big enough that you couldn't walk anything back. And I was like – [51:13] You're like, that's how someone like you would say. And like in front of their podcast, I'm sure get like. Oh, totally. Yeah. She's in a different. [51:24] 1,000% in a different planet. And honestly, she said it's so kind and like really, really was so generous. And it's absolutely amazing to her. She was saying it as a positive thing. She was saying it as a positive thing. She was 100% saying it as a positive thing. [51:36] And honestly, like actually the comment in this isn't about our numbers. Like I'm totally – I feel great about it. I feel great about our numbers. And like it's growing and everything's great. But –

[51:46] It's more just like... [51:48] What was revealed in that was like, we've set, we've decided that. [51:53] Something about how this podcast should go. We do an interview. Then we do all the, you know, we have our segments. We pulled it out of our ass. Completely out of our ass. Before we started this podcast. And now like four or five months later, I'm like, are these the right segments to be doing? Are we like... [52:08] And is it... [52:09] There's time to rethink it. Yeah. [52:12] And also... [52:15] I think related to that is like what's, [52:17] my slash our [52:20] voice in this world. [52:22] What do people want to hear from us specifically? I know what people want to hear from... [52:26] Paki McCormick and I know what people want to hear from Jess from Sea Club. Yeah. [52:32] I'm not quite sure what they want to hear from us. [52:35] Thank you. [52:37] Yeah, I mean, I feel like I know how they want to hear from us. [52:42] Like, I think I understand the tone. [52:44] Really well. Yeah. [52:46] But content I'm just struggling a little bit with. Yeah. I mean, I think it relates to what we were talking about in the DAO update too of like [52:54] I think we've very successfully [52:57] been able to attract people [53:00] a certain type of person that's a very niche. It's like a very niche thing. Very niche. [53:06] And like we're talking about [53:09] a DAO where we center female voices. Like that's literally what Boys Club is. And I remember the first episode when we were editing it and listening to it. And like, I was like, Dina, I just don't know if people are interested in this. And you're like, well,

[53:21] I was like, I don't know how many people are interested in like... [53:23] the creation of a DAO that's for women. And you were like, yeah, well, that's what we're doing. If people aren't interested, then like people are like, there's a bigger problem here. And [53:34] I think we've proven that people are interested in that thing and they are interested in Boys Club. But, like, who is interested in that? [53:41] I think is inherently pretty niche. Yeah. And I think... [53:46] What we're after and what we're trying to do is – and what I think very successful businesses have done is taken this thing that feels very small and very intimate and attracted a group of people to it and then like go wide. Wide in the scope. Wide in the scope and are able to keep what was special. [54:04] about that initial thing, about that initial community or whatever brand or whatever audience and are able to like, [54:11] 10x it, 100x it, but it still feel true to the thing. And so many people get that wrong. Like most people get it wrong. [54:21] Because they like lose the super sauce. Yeah. Yeah. [54:23] But then the people that do, like... [54:26] take it and run with it and like have this [54:29] like, [54:30] massive [54:32] audience from it [54:34] are... [54:35] have incredible businesses and like have a, have a big voice in the world. And like, that's incredible. And I think we're, we're at this tension point of like, [54:45] If it stays... [54:48] Exactly what it is. [54:50] I don't know that it can go...

[54:51] To where we want it to go. Yeah. But to change it... [54:55] there's risks involved with changing things. [54:59] it. [55:00] This podcast and Boys Club too. Boys Club generally. Yeah. It's not just this podcast. Yeah. I think it's – It's cross-channel. It's cross-channel challenge and it's a mirror to sort of the bigger thing which is like are we just talking about Web3? Like are we just talking about Web3? Mm-hmm. [55:18] to just talk about Web3. [55:21] I don't think so. [55:22] I have no interest to talk about Web3, just talk about Web3. [55:26] Right. [55:27] I mean, that's what we've been doing in fairness. [55:29] I don't think so. Okay. I would disagree with that. I would say that we're talking about Web3. [55:34] Because we're [55:36] Interested in what enables. Totally. Yeah. I'm not interested in just talking about it. Totally. [55:42] But like, yeah, I guess where does it go from here? [55:44] Do we talk about tech? [55:47] Do we got more? [55:48] Towards, I don't know. [55:49] someone's, some people [55:52] There's some ambiguity here. There's some ambiguity and I think that's, I think we felt that in the DAO earlier than we felt it in the media stuff. Yeah. And then we sort of got to something. [56:01] with the Dow was just like, honestly, just some like hard work. Like that's all that was to get to some like... [56:07] Next. [56:08] version of what the Tao is growing up a little bit growing up sitting down putting our heads down yeah [56:13] And I think that's probably what needs to happen on the media side. But I think what we have... [56:18] with the media upfront that we would want [56:21] is to hear from...

[56:23] our listeners. [56:24] Please. Like, what do you guys like? What do you not like? Like... [56:27] I think most people who listen regularly [56:30] are gonna say, [56:32] I love it. Don't change anything. I don't know. [56:35] Maybe not. Maybe not. [56:37] Please tell us. [56:39] What do you like? What do you not like? [56:41] What do you want more of? What do you want more of? That's actually the question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you want more of? [56:45] And if we, like, do we start doing interviews? Do we start doing interviews? Like, so we've done a lot of interviews that are, like, with people – [56:53] about their thing. [56:55] Maybe people don't want to hear that. Maybe people want to hear like, [56:58] more news type stuff. More recurrent. [57:01] Like maybe people actually do want the explainer of what a short – [57:05] I would love one. It's the same. I think that will be maybe next week. But like maybe actual explainers – [57:14] is better than like people talking about their thing. Or do we separate out people? [57:19] Also, do people want to hear this? I don't know that people want to hear this. I have no idea. Okay, let's close it out. I don't think that people want to hear us brainstorm about what the podcast is. [57:35] Oh, man. [57:37] I just got a text. Skims. [57:40] The best of Skims by annual sale. Nice. Nice. This podcast is not brought to you by Skims, but I wish it was. My whole heart, I wish it was. Okay. [57:50] Bye. [57:51] We are doing some draft tweets.

[57:55] I have one that's... [57:57] Uh, not... [57:59] funny [58:01] But it's a... [58:05] Thank you. [58:06] Oh, it's actually not in here. [58:09] It's not in there? You know, Twitter has like the drafts that it saves on your website. [58:16] Flaw. Major flaw. Hey, Elon, we have some feedback. High priority, when you have drafts, they should be in... [58:24] Both your phone and your desktop. Totally. [58:28] Okay, should I go first then? Yeah, go for it. [58:30] Okay. [58:31] This is a screenshot of... [58:37] Our notes app, we have a shared notes app with our editor of this podcast. [58:42] Dave. Yeah. [58:44] It's... [58:45] The caption is, I'm getting the feeling that at Medina is not feeling my active listening from these podcast cuts. And it's a screenshot. And it's just 1145, cut Natasha's yeah. 1147, cut Natasha's yeah. 1141, Natasha interrupts kind of awkwardly early. Can you help with this? 1155, cut Natasha's active listening. 1555, cut Natasha's oh nice. There were more. I know. [59:10] It was not even from this episode that you guys listen. This is from way back. But I was like, wow, cool. I guess I'm too much of an active listener to be a podcast guest. It was too much. It was too much. Our host. I'm sorry. [59:22] I'm just – I'm caring for you, honestly. Are you? Because like part of me is like –

[59:26] People want to know that we're still there. It was... [59:29] Too much. It was too much. And also it was like not synced exactly right as well. That's true. So I think it was more like... Yeah, this person was saying something and then I was saying, oh, nice, right as they were still talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, fair. Fair, fair, fair. Okay, mine is... [59:45] Um... [59:47] Okay, mine is not funny, but it's something that I really believe and don't have a platform to be able to say without seeming really kind of... [59:55] Negative. Oh, let's hear it. [59:59] Okay. Humble brag. [1:00:01] Cringe level 1000 is saying you're being impersonated on social media. [1:00:07] That's pretty good. I mean, don't you know what I mean though? I totally know what you mean. I totally know what you mean. Yeah. [1:00:12] But like what is the person to do if they are being impersonated? I know. And we were impersonated once on social media. And we had to say something. But there is something about it that's like – [1:00:20] Self-important. I'm so important that [1:00:24] Someone's impersonating on the internet. [1:00:27] okay bye