Ep 124: Feelings Check-In on ETHDenver 2024

[00:00] - We're not tired. [00:01] We're not heard at all. [00:23] Just boy stuff. [00:24] Guess what? Boys Club is doing our very first conference called Brand New. Dina, what are we going to be talking about? So we're going to be covering a lot of the stuff that we cover on this podcast. Crypto, of course, the new internet, digital culture, emerging technology will be at the Austin proper on March 12th. And we're pulling in some of the smartest people we know. It's going to be very fun. Tickets are now live and they will never be as cheap as they are right now. [00:54] Today, go buy your ticket. Members and zaddy holders get special pricing. And if you aren't a member, you can apply to attend brand new. So go to boysclub.vip backslash brand new link in show notes to get all the details and can't wait to see you in Austin. Yeehaw! Recording live from ETH Denver the morning after our party. So... [01:17] I [01:19] So this is going to be a really bad podcast and you should just really turn it off. I do want to say I was listening to another podcast this week and... [01:27] The person was talking about how tired they are. [01:29] They were on the podcast and I was like, man, no one wants to hear that. There's nothing I want to do less.

[01:34] then listen to this person talk about how tired they are. So we will not be saying that here. [01:38] For those who don't know, ETH Denver, [01:41] is an Ethereum conference that takes place in Denver. [01:45] Every year. [01:46] It is... [01:49] where all the neurodivergent people on the planet come together for a weekend of bliss. [01:54] we say that with love of course oh so much love the most love [02:00] I... [02:01] decided this year that I [02:03] was going to go away with the handshake. [02:06] Because I can't get sick. Like we have brand new in 10 days. [02:09] I cannot be sick. You cannot be sick. Neither of us can get sick. And so we're in a cesspool of... [02:16] the [02:17] Conference center. [02:19] and [02:20] the only thing to do is to say hi and hang out with people and, [02:25] I've decided I'm not [02:27] shaking hands anymore. I'm just going straight for the hug. [02:30] Feels better. [02:31] less surface area for germ [02:34] germs somehow [02:35] remarkably less service area for germ because it's no skin on skin contact no skin on skin contact no like [02:41] Palm. [02:42] with a little bit of sweat in it. It's just fabric to fabric. It's shirt to shirt. [02:47] Shirt to shirt. [02:48] No skin to skin. The only risk of high transmission in that scenario? [02:53] Head lice. [02:54] Oh my gosh, Dina! Ew! The only reason I'm present to that is one time we were at this conference where we were both pitching. It was like a pitch.

[03:07] It was like a demo day for something. And there was this one very handsome man. [03:13] there. [03:13] Such a sweetheart too. He was like a nice, young, handsome man. And you were freaking out all day. Cause you were like, my kids have lice. And like, I think I have lice. And I was like, just, [03:23] just don't hug anybody like don't make contact because you were like maybe I shouldn't come and I was like no you have to come [03:29] And so you were there and all day all you could talk about is whether you had head lice or not. Like you couldn't get it out of sight of your head. [03:36] And it was really cold in the room that we were in, like freezing. And this nice, handsome man... [03:42] saw you shivering in the back and came and brought you his jacket and he would not let you [03:51] i was like no no you were like no no and he was like whoa and he would not let you refuse and you you like draped it so tenderly like so far from your head it was it was comical and strange and [04:12] Oh my gosh. Do you remember Urza's All Clicking? [04:15] yes and i do want to say for those i did not end up having head lice and when i found out when that i found out when i got home i was so relieved that i hadn't i hadn't given this man head lice through his act of generosity it was so funny because we were on separate sides of the room and i watched it go down and i just texted you with like a hundred exclamation points and you just texted back with a hundred exclamation points like we were both just like the worst

[04:45] Maybe I'll get head lice. So something to look forward to. I have also had so many strange encounters where people are going for the handshake and I'm just like, bring it in. Bring it in. It's not really like I don't want to hug everybody. I just don't want to touch people's hands. [05:00] Yeah. You know? [05:01] So anyway, if you see me this weekend, I've given you a hug. [05:03] that's why it's survival okay so in this podcast we're gonna talk about eat denver highlights and then we're gonna talk about eat denver feelings [05:11] Great. And we are... [05:13] just spiritually where we're at. We had our party last night. [05:16] We are doing a keynote talk on Le Main Stage this afternoon. [05:22] And it's been really fun. So let's get into it. [05:26] you [05:27] Hey, Natasha. So a question we get asked a lot is, what do you look for in a crypto platform? So let's talk about it. Well, Dina, I look for a secure, no fuss platform that I can dive into right away. That's why I love today's sponsor, Kraken. If you're waiting for the right time to get into crypto, Kraken makes it super easy and intuitive to get started. Plus, if you get stuck, they have an award-winning client support team that's available 24-7, along with a bunch of educational guides, articles, and videos to help you along the way. If you're ready to check out [05:57] to kraken.com backslash boys club and see what crypto can be not investment advice crypto trading involves risk of loss cryptocurrency services are provided to us and us territory customers by payward ventures incorporated pvi dba kraken view pvi's disclosure at kraken.com backslash legal backslash disclosures okay eat denver

[06:19] I want to say 7,000 people. [06:22] What do you think? 10,000? I'm so bad at guessing this kind of thing, but yeah. [06:26] 7 to 12. [06:27] 7,000 to 12,000 people, although we could see something and they'd be like, 25. And I'd be like, okay, yeah, that checks out. They could also say like 3,500 and then I'd be like, oh. [06:36] Yeah. So just to paint this stage here, 8th Denver, [06:41] Denver, [06:42] the main conference center is a cavernous sort of, uh, [06:49] I think it's like an animal stock. We're in the West. We're in the American West here. It's where people sell horses. That comes through with the venue. You're like in a cattle thing that's been then reworked into a conference. City girls. We got some city girls here. [07:07] And, you know, booths and talks and stages and stuff like that. And then a lot of side events. So everyone's trying to win East Denver with their side event or activation. [07:18] As are we. We're playing that game too. [07:20] Yeah, totally. [07:22] And I'd say in terms of the overall vibe, [07:26] is, I'd say a lot of infrastructure. [07:29] conversations and builders. I didn't actually see any, I don't think I saw any consumer application [07:36] Layer stuff. I walked through... [07:38] all the booths yesterday and I didn't see. [07:41] Yeah, maybe like one gaming thing. IYK. [07:44] So I want to talk about Ira Kane, who we think won eighth ember, but other themes, general sentiment is, I'd say, exuberant. Mm hmm.

[07:56] So, [07:56] Really, really good energy. [07:59] Comparing it to last year were a total, a complete vibe shift. Are there trends we've been seeing? [08:06] that I'm learning [08:08] about as we go here. [08:10] d-pin d-pin who wants to who wants to take it d-pin is a narrative here d-pin is happening d-pin is decentralized physical infrastructure networks so like mobility electric vehicle charging telecoms my understanding of it is [08:30] That essentially it's so... [08:33] technical and I'm not going to do a correct job explaining it. So someone should come on and talk about it in the podcast. But the way that I've been thinking about it is like, okay, you have AWS, you have Google, [08:44] You have these like huge... [08:46] companies that have these servers that we're hosting everything on. And they're centralized to these huge tech companies. And Deepin is trying to decentralize [08:57] that physical infrastructure for things like servers. So one example of that's been around for a long time is [09:05] Helium. [09:06] which is trying to decentralize like cellular networks and basically people will get I think physical servers and [09:14] Again, some of this is going to be totally incorrect, but conceptually, physical servers, they have them in their home, they run them in their home, and then they get rewarded in tokens. And so that allows for eventually, if enough people are doing that, you have decentralized cellular networks. Demo is another company here that people are talking about that's driver data. So people like Uber drivers or Lyft drivers can put essentially this hardware,

[09:41] component, this hardware device in their car, and they'll be collecting data that then you can build protocols on top of and enterprises can [09:50] tap into that [09:52] protocol and rewards. I don't fully understand why you need... [09:56] driver data? I'm sure there's a good reason. But, [09:59] I'm not sure why exactly, but people are talking about it. That's a narrative here. Deepin for sure. And I think one more thing about Deepin, I think why people are excited about it is like for true decentralization to happen, that will need to happen all the way to the server level. Like it will need to hit actual physical infrastructure for it to be true decentralization. [10:25] percent of it but one of the things that she was talking about was like there's these all these companies that are raising crazy amounts of money in order to build decentralized infrastructure physical infrastructure and [10:36] She was like, I'm really challenged to [10:38] think about actually getting to a point where you're competing with centralized networks and [10:45] she was saying they must they have to start with also using those networks as well like you have some of it decentralized but then you're also using google or aws and then eventually you're getting further and further decentralized but it just seems crazy when you think about like the scale you would have to have the physical energy [11:02] that you would have to have in all these locations around the world would be really difficult. So, well, if she isn't there with it, then no chance I'm going to be there with it. So, um, okay. Wow. You really knew a lot on D-Pen. You, you, you kept that up your sleeve. Well, I like, I have, I did have some, but I didn't, I don't have the right language for it. So I have some conceptual understanding of it, but the language is not quite right. There's some D-Pen person listening to this. It's like, I know.

[11:32] maybe having you come in the pod if you've got an interesting story to tell around deep in. Okay. And then I do want to give a huge shout out to IYK who I believe won ETH Ember. Same. Their activation at in ETH Ember, first of all, looked incredible. So shout out to their team and their creative team for putting together an incredible looking booth. Really quick. IYK is a company that has [11:53] that [11:54] is chipped products. They produce chipped products. And the... [11:58] idea around that is that you can make physical goods connected to a virtual world in some capacity in many different forms. There's a lot of different ways that comes to life. And they're a really cool team. And they're doing it with like very legitimate brands and very like [12:14] cool stuff not like cringe stuff so iyk is nfc chips and they put [12:20] Chip's [12:21] in everyone's [12:22] badge. So you arrived at Ethenbury, you had a badge as you do at a conference and they put a chip in the badge. And so you basically could tap anyone's badge and you would be able to connect with that person. And they built a whole app experience around it. And so basically they set up a whole challenge around people going around and tapping each other's badges and making that connection. [12:45] human IRL one-to-one connection. And there was a leaderboard for the people that had the most taps. And I think there was also other quests that they built into it. But basically, then they had like a merch store where you could redeem your [12:59] the number of points that you accrued for all the tapping that you were doing for cool chip merch. And I've always thought Pat was one of those. And it was just...

[13:08] Now that I'm saying it out loud, it has like a little arcade feel to it, but it really worked. And the app experience is really seamless and just really professional, well put together. And just shout out to them. Yeah, big shout out. And I think it was a great combination of like URL to IRL. [13:25] gamification of networking, which is always something that's people are trying to unlock, I think at a conference and then just... [13:33] really like elevated [13:35] look and feel and that's really stands out in that in this conference totally if you put some effort into looking distinct and they did so love that team i think what they're doing is really interesting and so that's some of the cool stuff and then there's some degen stuff i i fortunately or unfortunately [13:55] Everyone's talking about airdrop farming. Yeah. Can you explain what airdrop farming is for the listener and for me? So airdrop farming is... [14:02] There are all these protocols or you can just think of them as like projects where they want [14:09] to encourage people to use their protocol [14:13] And... [14:14] They want to have people transacting on their protocol, like using their... [14:19] cryptocurrency or using their protocol to do things. They want transaction volume and they want liquidity on their chain. Like there's, [14:27] different things that these different protocols want, but they basically want people using it. And in order to incentivize the use of it, some will send tokens basically to people who are using the protocols in various ways. And sometimes these are framed as like bounties where they ask you to do specific things and then you get a reward for a token reward for doing those things. Sometimes they're like called quests where you have to do various things on chain and then you get tokens.

[14:54] dropped to your wallet in exchange for taking those actions. So yeah, it's basically you do, you take some action on chain and then you get a reward as a result of that. It's like [15:03] dropped to your wallet, to your crypto wallet, tokens that are dropped to your crypto wallet. Now, I'd say in a perfect world, [15:09] you're getting these tokens as a result of taking legitimate actions on these chains and like really using these protocols like that's really what people want to be incentivizing and so it's like you're using it to pay your friend or you're using it to stake your eth or you're using it to bridge to another chain and you're like really using it and so then you're getting rewarded for really using it uh unfortunately whenever you bring incentives into anything the incentive design [15:35] changes people's behaviors and use around things. And so what we have now is a situation where the users are basically going to these different protocols, taking these actions to seek out these rewards, not really because they want to use the protocol or not really because they're like using the thing. It's because they want the token airdrop. So that's what airdrop farming is. And I would say there's a lot of people who, because the market is [15:59] now in a better position than it was for the last two years. [16:03] are making a lot of money doing it. So it's very advantageous if you want to be in that game to you can make [16:11] lot of money and so that's a part of the conversation and i think for some people in the industry it was like [16:18] how do we avoid this and now i think which i'm kind of torn on it but i think more people are just sort of like this is a behavior that people are going to do this is a mechanism that's built into a lot of the applications and protocols that exist so why fight it so much and just like see what happens and let it ride i don't know i'm sort of up to minds i think it

[16:38] doesn't do anything for us in terms of like changing the narrative around crypto at all while people are doing it just [16:44] just with the intention to farm and get money not with the intention of being rewarded for participation in a network so that's a big part of the conversation and i think it's like the discourse around it is is this good is this bad and then there's additional discourse around it once everybody's had a cocktail talking about how much money they're making doing it so that's kind of the dynamic yeah and i'd say like some people are making like i we had a conversation with someone this week who was like yeah he this dude made 400 grand off of celestia airdrop serious [17:14] And I'd say also another part of it is that in order to be an airdrop farmer, you have to be obsessed and you have to be online all the time and you have to be in all these. You're not casually an airdrop farmer. You're not casually doing it. You're being very intentional. And it's a lot of work is what I understand. I've never done it. Oh, my gosh. You know who's an airdrop farmer? Who? Shock of my life. [17:34] Our intern. She told me that last night. And I forgot to tell you that in all the debriefing we did. I was joking, kind of, but I'm not totally joking. I was like, we need a full-time airdrop farmer on boysclub.com.vip. And she was like, oh, well, I could do that for you guys. And I was like... [17:51] excuse me and then she started telling me about how she's been an air drop farming which is [17:57] mad respect mad respect can you believe that's something we need to follow up on yeah take a note there we'll do a follow-up there um just everyone for context stephanie our intern 21 years old blonde university of utah something like that she's so unassuming so that's hilarious that she's an air job farmer i love that um

[18:18] Yeah, I think it's a... Okay, next trend. Related meme coins. [18:22] So... [18:23] I had sent an email to myself at like 1130 last night that said just one word dog with Yama. [18:31] And this is me sending an email to myself because someone in a conversation said that they had bought this token and had made like 13 grand in one day on it. And I was like, I need to do Google this later. I had the experience last night of somebody. [18:46] saying like, oh yeah, I spent $1,000 yesterday. [18:49] And it's worth $13,000 today. [18:52] and pulled out her wallet and it was that meme coin. [18:56] So that's happening. We'll talk about feelings around that in a few, but just a couple other trends. RFK, there's a political thread happening here. Oh, oh, oh, you're including this in a trend? I just want to I just want to say out loud that. [19:12] This is insane. RFK, who's Robert Kennedy, I'd say fringe- [19:18] presidential candidate uh bought a booth at e-thembro or perhaps was gifted a booth and he's campaigning to a crypto native audience which i i think that's not cringe that's very smart but he's kind of a loony bin i think he's like a anti-vax guy and kind of crazy and so and that comes through that comes through in his messaging uh it came through the messaging [19:48] so he has very favorable crypto policies. But you know, I'm not a single issue voter here. And the rest of his policies, I think are wackadoodle. So he's here. And there's a really funny thing that

[20:00] emails that have been going out trying to sell a campaign like I don't know what it's called like private a private [20:07] tete-a-tete with him for like five thousand dollars [20:12] Are you serious? Yeah, it's like $5,500 or something like that. And it's like a private meeting with him and they're selling tickets to that. And I'm just like, "Who?" [20:21] is buying that. [20:25] It's time for a more open, inclusive, and transparent financial system. A system that serves nearly everyone, everywhere, all the time. That's why we love today's sponsor, Kraken. Kraken is a crypto platform that provides a super simple on-ramp to the world of crypto with a 24-7 support team. Crypto transcends physical and imaginary borders. No matter where you are, you can send funds easily and quickly to almost any part of the world. Plus, forget about waiting times and waiting lines. You can send, receive, and trade crypto anywhere near instantly. [20:54] B at kraken.com backslash boys club, not investment advice. Crypto trading involves risk of loss. Transfers to a third party are not available on Kraken. Cryptocurrency services are provided to U.S. and U.S. territory customers by Payward Ventures, Inc. PBI, DBA, Kraken. View PBI's disclosures at kraken.com backslash legal backslash disclosures. Feelings? [21:16] I have feelings. I can go off. Go off, queen. [21:21] Let's hang on. I really wanted to send a tweet today. [21:25] I'll moisturize thriving in my lane that tweet, but it was like dehydrated, dry, a totally off base or something like that. Like basically everything not working. Um,

[21:40] But yeah, I think the feeling is there's a real positive sentiment in the air. It's really, really nice to be around. It's really nice to see friends and to see community folks and boys club members and... [21:52] projects and partners that we love. And it's really, really... [21:55] an enjoyable experience and because the market is up it's [22:01] It's... [22:02] everybody's hopeful everybody's looking at each other saying dumb like we're so back and that is really like it makes a big difference to what feels possible and everybody's talking about how they're getting texts from their friends asking about crypto again and [22:18] I love that. And I love that for us. And I love that for boys club. I think they're, [22:24] I feel like it's been three weeks. [22:27] - [22:27] is this really going to stick around? Everybody might just need to like take a, [22:31] beat and like the timing of each Denver might just be a perfect moment with the market and I feel like PTSD around being like [22:39] it's a, it's a bull market again. Like, I don't even want to say it. Like, like, [22:43] I feel that. And then I also... [22:45] just feel really conflicted about how much the price affects the market. And like, that's not what I care about. And I'm not going to be an airdrop farmer. I'm not going to buy shit coins and meme coins and stuff. [22:59] Try to get rich. I would love to. I wish I had that instinct. I do not. And I think it's hard to balance... [23:09] A genuine love for the technology and a genuine love for the idea of building a new internet and...

[23:16] doing it with a bunch of people who are creative and interesting and well-intentioned. And it's really annoying that that's [23:24] the other side of that coin always has to be the price and always has to be related to market conditions. And, [23:31] I know that it's the way of the world, but... [23:34] It just... [23:36] I don't like... [23:38] Thank you. [23:39] that I don't like that. Yeah. And the other feeling I have is because of that, [23:46] It's so about money. [23:48] And... [23:50] everybody's talking about [23:52] money and what they're doing with their money and how they're making more money and how much more money they could be making or if they do X, Y, Z and [24:01] it's makes you nonstop think about money and, and, [24:06] your own money and how much or little you have or how much you want and I already have that instinct I already think about money a lot I am ambitious and want to be wealthy like that's not something I've ever hidden on this podcast but I don't want to be obsessed with it and I don't want it to be my whole personality and it feels really like something you have to fight against when so much of the conversations around you are in and around a conversation around money [24:32] Yeah. How do you feel? It's a valid feeling. Yeah. I feel like I'm thinking about money all the time and I, [24:39] how everyone else is making money in this industry and I'm not. And that is a really ugly feeling.

[24:47] And... [24:47] All I can do is be honest about it, but it's right there for me. [24:52] and [24:54] I also, it's not new. [24:56] I remember last night I was telling the story of how I first got into crypto and it was 2017 so that cycle and we were in [25:05] Natasha, you and I both were working at Indiegogo and we were in that office and one of the things that got me to [25:14] like push through the friction of like trying to figure out what crypto was, was I was in that office and it was a bunch of tech bros and I was watching all of them talk about crypto all the time and make a lot of money. And they, and I was like, these guys are just crazy. [25:28] They're nice guys, but they don't have any special intellect. You know what I mean? [25:34] I'm just as confident as they are. [25:36] In terms of... [25:37] ability and yeah so i was looking at them and i was overhearing their conversations and they were all like whatever bro seeping out about how much money they're making and i was like these guys can do it [25:48] I can do it. You're like, if these guys can do it, literally anybody can do it. [25:53] So that was actually like, if I'm being honest about it, that was what first changed [25:58] got me into crypto. And so it's, I'm no stranger to that feeling of looking around the room and being like, wow, there's a lot of people who are [26:09] I feel as though I'm just as confident as and they are somehow making all this money here and I am not making any money here. And

[26:18] having feelings about that and yeah [26:20] I also saying it out loud, it's embarrassing and it's ugly. And I know that I'm saying it here because [26:26] what else are we doing here? We're not being honest, but that's there. Like you can't call me stupid. If I call myself stupid, exactly. Exactly. Um, so, um, [26:35] I don't know. I struggle with that. And then there's like some people that, you know, you just have things with certain people in conversations where like. [26:42] there's certain people that I see that all of them too is talking about money. And I'm like, it's such a, it's such a, like, they must leave those conversations being like, wow, Dina's, [26:49] out the she lost her mind about this thing um [26:54] and so someone's like can i just write her a personal check like at what point i know it's just silly and um and it's i think in just in these environments very heightened and like the meme coin stuff and airdrop farming stuff and there's just a lot of it seems to be very easy money but i haven't quite figured out how to unlock it and also like i'm not [27:24] money to be us and to be people in voice club and to be these like incredible community builders that we see and we hang out with all the time that are so well intentioned like like riley from our community she's [27:34] So like just so generous and warm and kind. And I don't know, maybe she's making a ton of money on airdrop farming. I don't know. But like, I would love that for those people winning, you know, and I, I, [27:47] It's not who I see winning these games, you know?

[27:49] Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And maybe it's like one of those things where the only people you see winning are the people who are talking about it and the people who are talking about it are a specific type of person. Like, I think there's a lot of that that happens. But yeah, I think it's a distraction from the work in a lot of ways. [28:07] if that's not the game we're in, which it's not. So it's distracting and it's noisy and it's hard to stay focused on [28:15] what we want and our goals and ambitions, not only for boys club, but for the industry. And, and, [28:23] that is a challenge that I'm faced with in a bull market. And it's interesting, like the challenges that you face in a bull market are so different than in a bear market. And so I don't know that we're in a bull market. Everybody seems to think that, but personally, I think we're calling it a little early people. Let's give it a few more days. I do want to say one thing in one of my many conversations that I had last night about money at our party and like woke up feeling so [28:48] And now I'm talking about here. Like what the fuck is wrong with me? But in one of those conversations, someone was like, you know, that there's very little logic to how that money is made. And like, so you can't actually apply critical thinking in the same way as you like maybe evaluate other investments that you make and [29:07] to what's happening in crypto around meme coins and airdrop farming like it's [29:12] not very rational. And so, yeah, [29:15] Also, I think that's part of it where it's like you're trying to figure it out and you're trying to use the laws of physics and the laws that you know. And it kind of exists outside those bounds because it's all like momentum and it's these and these like hidden telegram channels. And then there's like pump and dump stuff that's happening. And then there's like just some meme coin that will kick off on some subreddit. And then like in, of course, there's people who are tapped into those networks and they have leverage. But I think it's very hard to.

[29:45] know even what to do because it's kind of just crazy and yes [29:50] So anyway, that consoled me a bit. [29:53] Yeah, totally. One last note before we end. [29:56] I just want to talk quickly about the party. I know that it's annoying to hear about parties when you weren't there. And so I'm going to keep this brief. [30:02] But... [30:03] So fun. [30:04] like so fun I had so much fun and everybody there was so fun and came with such good energy such good top tier energy top shelf energy [30:16] Top shelf energy and [30:18] To like meet new people, to hang out with their friends, to... [30:23] dance together to drink together like everybody just came ready to have a great time and and [30:28] meet new people and see old friends and it was so wonderful and I feel this often [30:35] But I am so grateful that this is my job and I can't believe that this is what I get to do every day. And I can't believe that like... [30:42] What I get to do is host people I like. Like that's such a huge part of our job. And I'm really grateful that I get to do that. And I just want to say a huge... [30:52] Shout out to Miranda. [30:53] He huge. Oh my gosh. Many people don't know that there's a third person [30:57] full time in the mix here and i can't believe they don't i don't know what the problem is that it's not clear but miranda is the third [31:06] Charlie's angel here. And... [31:08] She is incredible and... [31:12] She started full time in September and has been part of boys club for a long time. And,

[31:16] It is when I think about last year, [31:19] compared to this year. And like, [31:21] I just showed up. [31:23] 30 minutes early to the party and it was incredible and everything looked amazing and there were all these thoughtful partner moments and the list was printed and the music was going and the cocktails were all like. [31:35] She's incredible and I don't [31:38] want anybody to [31:40] hire her. But I just want to say that when you work with really good people, [31:45] It literally changes your life and I'm so grateful for her. Yeah, totally. Yeah, it's not even the event logistics because... [31:54] that totally it's not that it's like she just has a tenacity and a commitment to [32:00] detail and just strategic thinking about how voice club shows up how we relate to our partners how we relate to this industry and also it's just so fun it's just so fun to work with her and she's so funny and we just have such a great time together so just yeah so great great call great shout out shout out to miranda and with that we wrap up our eth denver experience [32:22] For 2024. [32:23] 2024. We have our keynote today. And so I'm sure you're going to get some feelings about that next week. Okay, bye.