Ep 148: Feelings Check-In. Feeling Too Old for Crypto

[00:00] Empower women everywhere. Oh, we're cutting it because people won't know it's a joke. Yeah. The Feelings Check-In is a podcast for people who love to listen to two women overshare about the challenges of building a business, navigating careers in tech, and trying to have a personal life. I'm Natasha Hoskins. I'm Dina Burke. And this is Boys Club. Wait, is it just Boys Club? It's just Boys Club. [00:25] The boys club podcast. No, no. [00:28] Just boys club. [00:29] Hi. Hey. I just realized I can't keep eating. No, no snacks. Recording. [00:39] How's it going? [00:40] Good. We've been chatting all day, so it feels very weird to now turn on a mic and be... [00:45] It's supposed to be different somehow. It doesn't have to be different. Welcome to the feelings check-in. [00:51] I'm Natasha. This is Dina. This is a podcast where we talk about... [00:55] Our lives and careers and questions and... [00:59] Sometimes, [01:00] The feelings are flowing. [01:03] And sometimes the feelings are... [01:04] vulnerable. [01:05] unresolved. [01:08] Which I think is what today is. Today is an unresolved feeling. I don't know that it was flowing. Do you think the feeling is flowing? Oh, no. I don't think today was flowing. That was me saying, some days it's flowing. Today is not one of those days. I see. Also, I love that we had a conversation about feeling like you're aging out and partying too hard. And I'm like... [01:25] It's Tuesday morning and I went out on a Monday night in New York. That's a crazy move. So having this conversation like pretty hungover is fantastic.

[01:34] Pretty funny, actually. It is funny. And me searching for the words as we were talking. But we're in different eras and that's okay. We all can be at different eras in our lives. [01:47] careers careers and yeah still coexist and that honestly is is the lesson from today's podcast i just thought of the um [01:56] The... [01:57] Bumper sticker. The co-exist bumper sticker. Oh my god, what a classic. What a classic. [02:05] Anyway... [02:05] Do you want to share a little bit? Sure. So we talked about my feeling of... [02:09] Bing's world for crypto. [02:11] and [02:12] how that manifests itself in the conference circuit and then just the wider industry and probably stepped in a big issue and error around not being able to name female role models in this industry. And now I'm like, I have anxiety about that. [02:27] oh but new feeling unlocked new new anxiety unlocked but anyway it is what it is so no i think everybody knows our heart is to have [02:38] everybody... [02:39] recognized that should be recognized. And when we don't, it's out of just pure... [02:46] ignorance okay let's get it [02:52] Hey, Natasha. So a question we get asked a lot is, what do you look for in a crypto platform? So let's talk about it. Well, Dina, I look for a secure, no fuss platform that I can dive into right away. That's why I love today's sponsor, Kraken. If you're waiting for the right time to get into crypto, Kraken makes it super easy and intuitive to get started. Plus, if you get stuck, they have an award-winning client support team that's available 24-7, along with a bunch of educational guides, articles, and videos to help you along

[03:22] to kraken.com backslash boys club and see what crypto can be not investment advice crypto trading involves risk of loss cryptocurrency services are provided to us and us territory customers by payward ventures incorporated pvi dba kraken view pvi's disclosure at kraken.com backslash legal backslash disclosures i'm feeling weird i'm feeling like [03:45] You don't want to talk about this? I do. I'm fine talking about it, but I don't know. There's like something that I'm, maybe it's just my lunch. Not sitting right in my stomach, but like, I have like something weird, a weird feeling in my stomach. That's like, [03:56] Feels weird about this conversation. Maybe you just don't feel like being vulnerable. [04:00] I think a feeling that we could talk about on this podcast is the fact that every Wednesday we have to... [04:06] Dig deep. Tell our business. It's not that. [04:12] It's being perceived, I think, is part of it. [04:15] Mm-hmm. [04:16] And... [04:18] Yeah, I just like, it's just... [04:22] Can I tell you what I think it is? [04:24] I think that it's genuinely something that you are [04:28] Struggling with. Struggling with. Yeah. It's very, it's unresolved. [04:32] It's not like you're having a feeling and you've gotten to the other side of that feeling and now you're presenting that feeling to this podcast. It's like you're in the feeling. I'm in the feeling, yeah. [04:42] - Yeah, that's true. [04:43] I think it's true. Should we tell people? Yeah. [04:47] I feel... [04:49] coming off the back of ECC,

[04:52] And just generally reflecting on the crypto circuit lifestyle. [04:59] Mm-hmm. [05:00] that [05:02] I'm aging out of it. [05:04] And... [05:06] I think there's a couple different layers to it. One is like the conference circuit. Yeah. [05:13] Which... [05:14] I feel like I'm definitely aging out of. [05:16] and [05:17] I almost feel... [05:20] I have more peace around that. [05:22] part of it. Yeah. But then there's like the broader, more existential issue, which is like the industry. [05:28] generally. [05:31] and feeling... [05:33] Like [05:34] And [05:35] There are no... [05:37] visible role models... [05:40] of women. [05:41] in power over the age of [05:44] 40. [05:45] With the exception of like maybe Katie Hahn. [05:47] and, mm-hmm, [05:49] Thank you. [05:50] Can you think of anyone else? [05:51] um that's your beer that's it yeah [06:00] and [06:01] kind of wondering like where I go from here. [06:06] In my career. [06:07] So there's the age thing, which is partially an insecurity and partially... [06:14] an observation. [06:15] Because they're... [06:16] And I would also say partially, you are partially at peace with it. I'm partially at peace with it, yeah. It's not like you wish you were partying in 26 years old. You're like, I'm very happy to not be in that position in my life. I'm very happy, yeah. One of the big observations that I've come to recently is...

[06:33] when you're [06:34] in your 20s and early 30s, like... [06:38] I'm not sure for everyone, of course, but [06:40] part of it is like, [06:42] you think that older people [06:44] don't want to hang out with younger people because you think that they like – [06:48] the older people feel like the younger people won't like you. And you're like, "Oh, yeah, [06:53] the younger people just like, "Don't think I'm cool, and they're not gonna like me." [06:56] But the reality, like my lived reality so far being... [06:59] a month into my 40s is that I'm not interested in the conversation. I'm not interested in hanging out with the younger people because their conversations are boring. [07:08] And not, of course, like blanket generalizations, but broad strokes. It's like, it's not that you don't feel like you're not invited. It's that you don't want to. [07:19] Yes. And you're interested in different things. Whatever. Yeah. So, yeah, it's more just like... [07:27] for my career, [07:29] Mm-hmm. [07:30] Thank you. [07:32] where do I go from here? And then the second thing is [07:36] the conversation about the brand and like, [07:38] I think part of why I feel sick about this conversation is that I feel like I'm inadvertently aging the brand. [07:43] And that makes me feel bad. It makes me feel bad for you and Miranda and everyone who's like, it just makes me feel bad. [07:48] Yeah, I can respect. I am holding space for you to feel bad. The space is held. But... [07:56] I... [07:58] don't have any concern about that. If the brand is that fragile, [08:02] then like we have much bigger issues. - Yeah, I know, I know, I know, I just,

[08:08] And also, I think the brand is in a moment of growing up. Yeah. A little bit in some areas. And I think... [08:15] that that's appropriate and... [08:18] So I, you can, that one, that part of it just released to the gods. [08:26] So that's what I'm feeling. Yeah, I think that I have a few thoughts around it. One, I've been noticing that, [08:34] And... [08:35] At first... [08:36] I was upset. I was like, come hang and... [08:42] party and and then i realized like oh this is just because i like hanging out with you and i think you're so fun and cool and like by the way me saying that i don't want to hang out with younger people i'm not talking about you and like no of course not no but like over the course of the last year [08:55] There's been a new trend at boys club parties where you and Miranda come to me around 1045, 11 and say, hey, we're going to pretty soon. Do you want to come? And I'm like, no. And I stay for two more hours. [09:10] And then the next morning we all get breakfast and you guys are like, tell me everything. And yeah, that's been a vibe shift from when we first started, I guess, what it was. [09:21] And [09:22] So I have noticed a shift and I think at first it was upsetting is way too strong of a word, but like I was like, this isn't what I want. I want to hang out with you all the time and I want everybody to hang out. [09:32] all together and also i thought it was coming from a place of you feeling insecure and being like i don't want people to think i'm like

[09:40] The old lady in the room. [09:42] And we mean like nobody thinks that. And not wanting you to like limit yourself because you thought that that was what's going on. And then I feel like as we've. [09:49] been talking about it and I think you've had more language for it. It's, oh, no, it's like, I don't want to be there. I don't want to do that. And I think you enjoy it till 1045. And then you're like, okay, all the good conversations that [10:03] I am going to have tonight have happened. And I'm ready to... [10:08] turn in and be with people in the morning and be more present with them and like whatever so [10:14] don't worry it's not like Dina hates being at these parties it's not that at all it's like you know when it gets to a certain point where it turns to just like a different vibe anyway and I think it's really interesting to witness I think what's hard about this industry and I think a lot of people could relate to this is when I try to explain this industry to my friends who have more traditional jobs it's [10:36] hard because [10:38] It's a... [10:41] very young industry, so young. Everybody is babies, basically. Like I feel [10:47] Mm-hmm. [10:48] all the time that like i'm looking around the room and i'm like wow that person is literally 23 years old and in a position of [10:54] some authority in this industry it's like a crazy thing and then that's one thing and that also leads to a party culture [11:02] the conference circuit like there's all these things that are that converge all at once within crypto that make it feel [11:08] like a fever pitch around this conversation. And I also think

[11:13] it does affect your career. These parties, these conferences, these events, the late night stuff, like all of that... [11:20] has some [11:22] There's soft power in it. [11:24] Yeah, there's soft power in the social dynamic of it. [11:28] I think what is difficult is if you're starting to be like, okay, I don't, I don't want to do that anymore. And so much of the boys club brand is tied. We are so complicit in the culture of. [11:38] the vibe of late night and whatever. [11:42] and [11:44] It's just like, yeah, what does that mean for where those opportunities are if they're not in with a cocktail and at 1130 at the end of the night being like real talk all of a sudden. And so there's that. And then I think, yeah, there's no examples. There's no examples of like. [12:00] There's like a Joe Lubin. Yeah. Like adult man or like a Chris Dixon or like, you know, these men who are in their 40s, 50s. I don't know how old Joe Lubin is, whatever. Yeah. [12:11] That is an example. And then there's like the 24 year old founder. [12:16] And like those are kind of the examples of who's in this industry. And I think a lot of people are really fatigued by that. I think so too. And I think that everyone, I think, not everyone. I think that there's a lot of people who... [12:29] see the benefit of a more age diverse industry. [12:34] there's maturity there's stability there's different market insights that come from different groups of demographics that i think have very real

[12:43] and compelling like business [12:45] opportunities. [12:48] So I think that like [12:51] I don't think that there would be a lot of resistance to saying like, I think there should be more age diversity in this industry. It's just not there. Like, it just doesn't exist. Did you see the viral tweet that's going around about if you're in your 20s and 30s, the group chat thing? Yeah. Yeah. [13:04] I don't have it, but I saw it. That was basically like if you're in your 20s. [13:09] join this group chat for like [13:11] Gen Z crypto builder, which I think is great. And I think they should do that. [13:15] yeah i true i really do think they should do that i think for me i'm like in five years i want a board seat [13:20] Who am I? [13:22] Who am I in community? Who am I? What group chat can I board member? Where's the like community to kind of chat about? [13:32] that and what that means in crypto and where those opportunities are what you grow into and there's [13:39] There's just like a missing whole missing thing. [13:43] layer and I'm honestly like truly like doing some scenario planning with my career and I'm like, I don't know, do I go into... [13:53] I truly don't know where to go from here. Yeah. I think also a big part of it is that we're on this consumer culture side of crypto. I think if you were in some hyper-financialized world, [14:06] Maybe that's the pivot. Maybe I maybe... [14:09] She's pivoting. [14:10] Crypto is just money. Real world assets. Totally. Like real world assets or some institution, bank, something. I don't even know. I don't even have the words. Yeah. Doja Cat Bank. So, yeah, I think that's also part of it is we're indexed to a specific type of a specific subset.

[14:31] corner of this industry that is mostly [14:36] Babies. [14:37] And [14:39] that [14:40] is tough. And I go to these conferences and I go to these parties and [14:46] I feel it like where I'm like, man, this is going to get old. This is going to get old. [14:51] at some point. [14:52] And... [14:54] I think it also has big [14:57] questions for [14:58] Boys Club. There's a line from Step Brothers, I think, or maybe Wedding Crushers, where he's like, we've been going to the same party for 25 years and that's not depressing at all or something. And I've been feeling that way a little bit at some of our parties where I'm just like, is there a point where I, where the brand is different and where we're not [15:14] the party girls anymore. Yeah. And we've always been more than that. And it's always, we've leveraged that to build the business. And that's not like, [15:22] It's never been the heart of Boys Club. It's been a big part of it, but not the thing. And... [15:29] I think... [15:31] we had this beautiful dinner with the Kraken dinner. And I was like, oh, this feels, someone was like, wow, you guys are really growing up. And it was a big compliment to me because yeah, I think as we've talked about lifestyle brand evolution, whatever, it's like, how does the brand start to feel more elevated? And yeah, [15:46] Less. [15:48] not young, but like, [15:49] a little just more mature in the way that it shows up. There were so many beautiful conversations that night and it's so much fun. Like it was, you know, it wasn't like snooze fest. So I think that that will be additive.

[16:04] March towards Death laughter laughter [16:10] Huh? [16:11] great great great great great great great great [16:17] It's time for a more open, inclusive, and transparent financial system. A system that serves nearly everyone, everywhere, all the time. That's why we love today's sponsor, Kraken. Kraken is a crypto platform that provides a super simple on-ramp to the world of crypto with a 24-7 support team. Crypto transcends physical and imaginary borders. No matter where you are, you can send funds easily and quickly to almost any part of the world. Plus, forget about waiting times and waiting lines. You can send, receive, and trade crypto anywhere near instantly. [16:46] be at kraken.com backslash boys club non-investment advice crypto trading involves risk of loss transfers to a third party are not available on kraken cryptocurrency services are provided to us and us territory customers by payward ventures inc pvi dba kraken view pvi's disclosures at kraken.com backslash legal backslash disclosures i don't know though around the career stuff i really don't know i who could we call [17:11] If you're listening and you're [17:14] 50 if you're a 50 year old woman and you're listening to this please slide into my dms seriously though i'm like we're like [17:21] what it's like no i'm not i'm not joking it's not a rhetorical question [17:27] I'm like, do I go into politics? Like that's the only place that I see in this industry where they're

[17:36] are women. [17:38] over the age of 50. Man, I feel like somebody's going to come at us with like all of the list of women. [17:43] in this industry over 50. [17:46] Which would be great. Yeah, please do. Binder full of women. Please do. Please. I seriously. [17:52] would invite that. I guess like the [17:56] Perhaps that's true. But I would say very visible, getting a lot of press very regularly. Of course, there's incredible women who are working. Yeah. Like that goes without saying, of course. But at a Chris Dixon level. [18:10] where you're getting on the huge podcasts and you're on the front covers of things and you're getting the level of press that makes you a very visible person in this industry. [18:20] Yeah. I think that's what we're talking about. We're not, I totally acknowledge and recognize all of everyone. I'm curious also if like part of it is that some of those women don't want to be. Yeah. Yeah. [18:30] do that because you don't want to. I don't. [18:32] Yeah. So that's part of it. [18:36] Part of it is like there are definitely women in this industry on board seats, making big decisions, managing huge portfolios, managing big funds like 100%. But... [18:47] They're not on the circuit. And that's probably very intentional. And... [18:51] Right. They don't probably have time to do it, to be fair. Or it could be like an extension of what I'm saying, that when you get to a certain age where you don't want to, maybe they're just like, I don't want to. [19:01] I don't want to do that. And I don't have to. And I don't have to. And I don't want to expose myself to... Honestly, the risk...

[19:07] people saying stuff. [19:09] Yeah, also, like, you're a public person, you put your... That's surface area for risk. And to say something stupid or to have someone not like you or, like, whatever, it's, like... [19:19] That's... [19:20] definitely there i think and so that's maybe what's more going on i think it's probably a combination anyway [19:28] I feel you. I am sad that you guys... [19:32] don't want to party with me anymore [19:38] But I get it and I respect it and it's new rituals. [19:45] new rituals come about. My favorite is when you guys leave and you go get food and then you get me food and then I can just show up later to the hotel with some food waiting for me. Anyway, I think that you are a flag bearer for a lot of women, I think, in this industry. And [20:03] I think people look up to you and see you as... [20:06] there's a whole crop of women that are looking at you. [20:08] And being like, okay... [20:10] There it is. [20:12] There's where I can go. I'm not joking. I appreciate that. I'm serious. And not in like a weird maternal way, but in like, you know, 10 years ahead, 15 years ahead. Like, what does my life look like? [20:22] I think. [20:24] you're a hopeful story for a lot of people, I think. Oh, thank you for saying that. You're welcome. You're welcome. It's just the truth. Okay. I still want a board seat. If anybody's listening with a board, open board seat.

[20:37] Dina's available. She's open. She's open to it. I have the little LinkedIn thing that says... [20:44] okay let's cut it here