Full Interview: Anduril CEO Brian Schimpf on $1B+ Revenue & Still Doubling

[00:00] What is the growth of Andrel? Recent funding valuing the company at more than $30 billion. Andrel is helping to build the military of the future. We're eight years-ish in. We're at about 7,000 employees. We have consistently doubled revenue every year. Over a billion, we're still doubling revenue. Nearly everything we're doing is around this future of a more disconnected, more autonomous battlefield. That's a core part of the thesis we have. We've been able to build up a software platform, all the components you would need from sensors, [00:30] from compute, from networking systems, like communications, all this stuff, enables us to go really fast. Worldwide, we're in a period where things are just geopolitically more unstable. People like to talk about this, that we're in this time of peace, but it doesn't seem all that peaceful to me. We set up this company to have an impact on the world, to change deterrence, to change the trajectory of where defense was going. It feels like it is really happening now. It feels like we're at the scale and size that this is really moving the needle. [01:00] with rumors of IPOs and fake SPVs. - Yeah, the fake SPVs are great. Everyone is slinging andurl stock that they don't have. There are just a handful of these growth stage companies that are doing very well in an outrageously large market with incredible momentum and track record of success. We are one of those few companies. If the world is gonna need more of what we're doing, we are undervalued. [01:25] *music*

[01:30] Ryan, welcome to Sorcery. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me at Anderil. Yeah, it's pretty cool campus. It's like tons of energy old LA Times printing press. It's like it's a very awesome space. I've had so much fun interviewing each of the founders today. [01:46] And I've asked, I think most of them, if not all of them, what their favorite product is. So let's start with that. What's your favorite product? Right now, I am probably most excited about the Autonomous Fighter Jet because it is [01:59] pretty wild. [02:00] Pretty first of his class. And it's just like a big plane. Like airplanes are cool. [02:05] But my opinion will probably change in about like four weeks because we got a lot of really cool stuff going on. [02:10] And so I want to talk about the current state of Anduril's business. [02:15] You've scaled a lot, so could we put some numbers behind that? [02:18] What is the growth of Anduril? Yeah, so we're eight years-ish in. [02:23] We're at about 7,000 employees. We have consistently doubled revenue like every year, right? So even like over a billion, we're still doubling revenue. And so we have just massively ramped on the top line, [02:38] number of employees and then the number of products we've been able to field is [02:42] just pretty unsurpassed. I mean, I think we're in just dozens of different fielded products, depending on how you count it, configurations, whatever else. But we've just been able to like show [02:50] the ability to like rapidly get new capability out to the field quickly and that there's demand for it and we can make it go quick. And so it's, [02:58] it's just really grown a lot faster than I anticipated.

[03:02] Like I thought we'd be [03:04] you know, five, six years from now at this point, but [03:07] just the pace that the customers have been excited about what we're doing, [03:11] the [03:12] the uptake, like all of that has gone a lot faster than I would have thought. I think there's like [03:17] Macro reasons for that. [03:19] There's, you know, execution reasons is a huge part of it. I think we build the right things at the right time. [03:24] but just the... [03:26] somehow it continues to accelerate even beyond where we're at today. [03:30] How has the product line expanded and how do you [03:34] How does that get shaped? What is the form there? Because you have land, air, space, Arsenal 1. [03:41] - C. - C. [03:42] with electronic warfare, so all the jamming, all of those pieces. We're thinking about cyber things like it's all sorts of crazy stuff. [03:49] The way we think about it is, [03:51] A couple of different things. [03:54] one just natural progression of the company, we're going to move up in the complexity and scale of what we can work on. So if early on we were working on smaller drones, [04:03] made sense for where we're at. The capital to actually get there, the expertise you need to have, it's a solvable problem quite quickly. [04:09] we've moved up into just much more sophisticated capabilities. We're making low-cost cruise missiles that fly hundreds of miles. We're making autonomous fighter jets. You know, like three years ago, we weren't... [04:20] believable to make autonomous fetter jets, now we're doing it. And we're going to have them be produced in a production facility in like months from now. [04:26] Um, [04:27] So just the physical scale, the complexity, everything we're doing, we're able to mount harder and harder things.

[04:33] It reminds me of the Tesla progression through a hand-built Roadster that was limited edition, through to increasing sophistication on production, design, all these pieces. So you kind of have that angle. [04:45] then [04:46] The other piece of this is what [04:48] is believably going to be a good... [04:52] big enough business to justify us being into. [04:55] that bar has raised over time, like the scale of the business we need to go after has gone up. [05:00] But the parts that have held true are [05:02] We've got to be able to see [05:05] real adoption within like three to five years, right? We're not working on things that are 10 years out. That's just not where we're at. We've got to see the ability to get real traction in the next few years. We've got to have like a technical edge of like, why would we be able to do this better? Either on production, on software, on hardware. What is the insight we have? [05:22] and the government's gotta wanna buy it, right? At the end of the day, we don't have that many customers, and they've gotta be at a point in their life cycle where they're investing in this type of capability now. So you could have made small drones 10 years ago and tried to sell them to the government. A lot of people did. [05:37] not that many of those businesses are around anymore because the government was not ready to move out at any meaningful scale at that time. And so really getting that market timing right is probably the most important part for us where [05:49] "We have conviction this can actually go [05:51] because we've got the business intuition, the technology, you know, the customer's ready, that this is going to pay out in like next three to five years. So that's kind of how we always assess it. [06:01] The other through line with this is, [06:03] We're not going to work on stuff that we don't believe is relevant for the future of where the military is going.

[06:09] - Thank you. [06:11] You can chase kind of nonsensical products that don't have longevity to it, that aren't actually fit for purpose. [06:19] Maybe you can make some money off of it for like a few years. But if you're not actually aligned to where... [06:25] the government's going to be where the military is going to be 10 years from now. [06:28] It's not going to work out. So everything we're doing, we are [06:31] constantly validating this is something that would actually be dominant in the long term. This actually makes sense to integrate into the military. And if you're right on that, it tends to work out in the long run. [06:42] It may not work out immediately, but over the long run, you will be successful. [06:47] And you're also doing it [06:49] with very competitive efficiencies against competitors and primes. Yeah, I mean, [06:56] I often think we're [06:58] you know, it's like, are we as good as we would like to be in terms of like [07:02] beating the best commercial companies and getting things out to market. Not always, but you know what? Defense is a very unique world where you're going to build a lot of different products at relatively low volumes. Like that's actually a very strange world to live in. Compare it with like, you know, [07:17] a Tesla or an Apple where they're going to build an outrageously high rate of these products. And like saving two seconds off your production time can mean significant amounts of savings or you can get out much more of the system. We're in a very different world. We've thought about manufacturing with production with all these things. [07:34] This idea of how do we have [07:37] you know the ability to sustain very high mix of products relatively low rate and be extremely flexible

[07:42] That cross cuts everything we're thinking about, [07:44] And then the other side of this is [07:47] We've had this through line of nearly everything we're doing is around this future of [07:52] a more disconnected, more autonomous battlefield. That's a core part of the thesis we have. [07:58] So we've been able to build up a software platform, all the components you would need from sensors, from compute, from networking systems, like communications, all this stuff that is enables us to go really fast when we get on to a new capability. So we're not inventing all the software from scratch, not inventing all the hardware from scratch. [08:16] we've got this toolkit and baseline that we refine and build on over time. So this enables us again, if you live in this world where you're gonna have a lot of products, and you're gonna have to field them fast, and you're gonna have to mature them fast, it's the only strategy that's going to work, you've got to keep this sort of [08:29] this toolkit of [08:32] components that you can bring to bear very, very fast. And then you need the software to tie them all together. And that's Lattice for us, that core software that makes everything smart and work together. So we've taken a strategy that's quite different than what a lot of the traditional players have done, right? That's expensive. That's hard. It takes a lot of conviction that you're building the right things. You got to get it right. There's no like short-term feedback on it. You just got to have belief of where this is going to go and invest in it. [08:55] How do you price the products? Yeah, so highest level, our view should be these should be cheaper, right? Like if we're working on something [09:03] we should be coming in at a fraction of the cost of the alternative approaches. We can get there through [09:09] the fact that we're using commercial off the shelf components, or things we've invested in, cheaper production processes,

[09:15] and really just designed it with cost in mind. [09:18] That's kind of a baseline we start with. [09:20] But yeah, pricing with the government is a mess. It's incredibly complicated. There's a huge art to it. [09:26] Sometimes they want to see your cost and your price reasonable. Sometimes they'll just use other price justification. It really is all over the place how you actually sort of allowed to price these things intelligently. [09:37] But our view of this is [09:39] should get to a rational place that every other industry is [09:42] gotten to, which is we would prefer to work on things where we charge a fixed price and there's [09:49] a sustaining fee to this, right? Like I'm paying year over year for upgrades and everything else. [09:55] And [09:56] That's how the software gets better, that's how your systems get better. [09:59] It's a very rational win-win outcome. And we also like models where if it doesn't work, we don't get paid. [10:04] It's a controversial position in the government, but we really prefer models that hold us accountable to delivery. [10:10] just makes us a better company and the government gets a better outcome. So we always try to find these ways to take more of the risk. [10:16] to be more accountable. [10:18] that works really well for us. And I think it's a win-win scenario versus, [10:22] The traditional approach where it's like the government took all the risk and you get a fixed profit fee, [10:26] That's a disaster. Like everything just gets more complex and more expensive. It doesn't work out. [10:30] Secretary Hegseth was just here, had a big visit. And he was also just at the Reagan National Defense Forum. [10:38] I'm curious. [10:40] from the visit and then also his remarks at the forum [10:44] How do you now view this kind of like new world of war? And do you think it's being embraced in a way that wasn't before? The main change he's driving at,

[10:52] is [10:54] When you look at the industrial base, [10:56] the ability to produce [10:58] and the ability to get new capabilities out quickly [11:01] one of the most determinative [11:04] aspects you can have as a defense department, right? [11:08] It's a war department. [11:09] And... [11:10] That's not where we're at. [11:11] We've had a strategy for generations which has been [11:16] The decades-long technological edge is how we win. [11:21] Right? [11:22] The US invested more, had better engineers, [11:25] and capitalized it more efficiently to get to that massive technological edge. [11:31] And there is still a dimension of that, for sure. [11:34] but increasingly the ability to produce at scale in a way you can afford, the ability to [11:40] innovate fast on the software to rapidly adapt these capabilities, that's going to be [11:45] the determinative characteristic, right? We see this in Ukraine, we kind of see this across the board. [11:50] So everything he's trying to align around is this idea of [11:53] How do we get capabilities out faster to the force? [11:57] in a way that is affordable and effective. And companies that can work in that world, great, [12:03] Companies that can't. [12:04] you're going to die. And I think that's a healthy view. [12:07] What he's not saying, and I... [12:09] And I think because the reality is, is there is a mix is, [12:12] Some of this stuff is going to look like autonomous systems, but it's not all going to be. Right? There's still going to be a place for [12:17] aircraft carriers and all these things, but the balance is going to shift. And there's these new class of capabilities

[12:23] that are really relevant, that can be more cost effective, that you can produce at scale, [12:27] And that's going to be a key aspect of what we do in the future. [12:30] And so the focus is really on industry that can perform, setting up incentives for performance and setting up [12:36] the whole acquisition system around speed. Where prior, it was entirely set up around, we just need the most expensive capabilities [12:43] at any time, at any cost. And that's not the world we're in anymore. [12:47] Do you think the nearly trillion dollar budget is reasonable or unreasonable, given the amount of efficiencies and technological advancements that we have? And maybe for people that don't understand how it's being allocated, could you also share that? Yeah. So there's borderline trillion dollar defense budget. [13:09] And everyone thinks it's like we're buying a billion dollars of kit every year. Well, that's not true. Right. [13:14] I forget the actual percentages, but it's more than half goes to [13:18] personnel costs to facilities to military construction. So you just have an outrageous percentage going to these [13:27] you know, kind of fixed costs that you have, that are not next generation technology. [13:34] there's an outrageous cost as well then to sustaining the legacy technologies you have bought. [13:39] So maintaining aircraft, maintaining ships, these are huge bells, right? That is significantly higher than the amount that's spent on procurement. And when you look at this in terms of historic terms, [13:52] The procurement budget as a percentage of GDP, for example, is I think the lowest it's ever been.

[13:57] And so we're not spending money on the new technology. We're spending money on sustaining the old technology. We're spending money on... [14:05] all the infrastructure that we have to have a global [14:08] military and that is very expensive. So now you're really talking about how do I get efficiency out of [14:14] you know, call it the 30% of the budget that I, you know, you're, you're actually maneuvering around. [14:20] Um, [14:22] And in that world, you know, there's a good argument, which is, [14:25] we could be spending that money a lot more efficiently. I think that is true. It's hard to argue we couldn't. Um, [14:31] How much more efficiently? I don't know. But, you know, I tend to think we can get a lot more bang for our buck on weapons, on aircraft, you know, probably 2x from where we are. [14:43] by just looking at a different mix of these things. [14:46] But the hard part is we've got to transition to that world. [14:48] Right. So we're not we can't just jump to that and say, [14:52] All of a sudden, we're going to abandon all of our manned surface combatants and move to this autonomous future or something like that. That's just not... [14:59] believable. So we're going to have to go through this transition, which is sort of always true of [15:05] How do we responsibly cycle out the old, think about what's still fit for purpose or not, and then get the new systems in place? That will cost more for a period of time. [15:14] And that is a hard world. [15:17] to live in. [15:17] And so I don't see a world where like the defense budgets could magically shrink and we still have the military that we need to have. [15:25] But I do think these things can be done wildly more efficiently than they ever have in the past.

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[17:00] Visit turing.com/sourcery, spelt S-O-U-R-C-E-R-Y. That's turing.com/sourcery. I want to talk about Anduril's expansion. You have a global expansion, whether it's the facility in Australia or the New Deal with Edge and the UAE. [17:19] Let's maybe start with Australia and building out Ghost Shark there. [17:24] What was that process like? Australia is a great example. So setting the context, maybe a little broadly, [17:29] worldwide [17:31] we're in a period where things are just geopolitically more unstable. [17:36] People like to talk about this, that we're in this time of peace, but [17:39] doesn't seem all that peaceful to me. We've got a land war in Europe, [17:42] The Red Sea is still intermittently shut down. Israel and Iran going at it. You've got China doing constant aggression on the Philippines and the South China Sea. Cambodia and Thailand are sparring all the time right now. India and Pakistan doing air wars and doing air combat. [18:00] I'm probably forgetting several of these going on right now. And so we're not in a time of peace, right? Like this is not a stable time. And so something has changed, right? Like there's... [18:10] sense that [18:12] A lot of the historic grievances, [18:15] the political opportunism to use violence to get to your ends that has changed. And every nation's reflecting it. [18:21] where they're increasing defense spending, they're ramping up their own defense, and I think the view of what the US is going to do or not do on everyone's behalf has shifted. The US reasonably is saying,

[18:33] We're not going to go fight everyone else's wars. We're going to expect every nation to provide for their own defense. [18:38] But that also does not imply the US is backing away as the sort of security guarantor for the world, right? Like we still have the only Blue Water Navy in at scale that is able to project force anywhere and sort of multiple parts of the globe all the time. [18:53] can guarantee international shipping and stability of the seas. There's all these things we're still going to do. [18:59] as America that are very aligned to our interests and aligned [19:02] to the system that we have. [19:05] So that's the whole backdrop that's going on [19:07] There's a whole lot of other pieces to this. Nations are increasing their budgets. [19:11] Um, [19:12] The security situation is deteriorating and, you know, the U.S.'s role is shifting in a lot of this. [19:20] And on top of it, the [19:22] backlogs on like you want to order Patriot missiles. I'm hearing right now [19:26] The latest number, someone told me [19:28] over the weekend was 15 years to get a new Patriot system. Like, what does that even mean? Like, I have no idea what that means, right? But it's like, call it even five to seven for a backlog. Like, this is crazy. So the US isn't a dependable producer anymore. Can't get the weapons in time. [19:45] This has resulted in basically every country looking a little bit differently in how they're going to think about [19:52] when they are ramping spending, [19:54] What does that mean and what do they want to be true? [19:58] They're all going to look at a [19:59] question of [20:00] If we're gonna spend a lot of money, we should get some economic benefit.

[20:03] But probably more importantly, [20:05] We need to have assured supply. We need to know that if we order this, this shows up. [20:09] and that we want to [20:12] shape our military for what we need it to be for our regional challenges. [20:17] Australia is a great example of this. [20:19] They shut down their French submarine program. They're going all in on the US nuclear [20:24] submarine programs. That's not going to show up for [20:27] 'til 2035. [20:28] So this major gap of about a decade, where their old technology was phasing out, [20:33] and they were waiting on this next generation capability to come in. We went and pitched them on this idea of you could build these extra large autonomous underwater vehicles, you can build them [20:43] and we did this model of splitting the development 50/50. They had skin in the game, we did two. [20:47] and [20:48] we ended up executing that program incredibly quickly. And to their credit, they saw the opportunity and said yes basically immediately. [20:55] They said yes in just a couple of months, and we were signed in under contract. And we were able to deliver at Pace. [21:01] We built out an Australian engineering team. We built out an Australian production facility. We have our first [21:09] Production GoShark already came off the production line, then I think 30 days of signing the production contract. So just an incredibly fast pace that shows what you can actually do if you just hit go on this. [21:19] And we want to replicate that model in a number of other countries. [21:23] It's not gonna look all the same, right? There's not that many places that will do, you know, fully ground up capabilities. [21:29] But this idea of [21:31] integrating into their military, helping them think about ways they can use technology to modernize, do warfare differently.

[21:38] And [21:39] understanding [21:40] a more nuanced approach to how they're going to get local engineering and local production [21:45] that fits. [21:46] while still being aligned with the US, which is [21:49] still again, the backstop of world security. Everyone needs that US alliance. And so this is just a very nuanced, complicated thing to actually solve for. [22:00] But the numbers are pretty clear. Europe is going to spend something like [22:04] four times the amount of procurement that the US is over the next five years. [22:08] Like it's a massive buildup. Japan's going to substantially increase their budget. Taiwan's increasing their budget. Australia. [22:15] Like everyone is ramping. [22:16] So that problem I talked about with the US having so much in sustainment and keeping the legacy going, so the countries won't have that problem as much. They have an opportunity to build new and build efficiently. [22:27] And [22:28] Something we very much want to help them with. [22:30] How do we increase [22:32] manufacturing capacity. Inside the US? Yeah. [22:35] Manufacturing capacity in the U.S. is, I think, actually quite soft, though. [22:39] So there's things that [22:41] we have a lot of capacity, right? Like there's a lot of automotive production. There is a lot of industrial production. What I think has gone wrong on defense production is we viewed it as this Galapagos Island of industry, where we said, [22:53] cutting you off from everything else, all the learnings in the commercial world, [22:57] and you're going to evolve on your own. [22:59] And that was a disaster, right? It was its own requirements, its own industrial base. It's quite separate. [23:06] But that didn't have to be true, right? In World War II,

[23:09] We didn't design airplanes we wish could be produced. [23:12] We designed airplanes that could be produced. We designed Jeeps and tanks that could be produced in the processes, in the industrial capacity that we had. [23:21] And designing with that in mind, when you know from the beginning, you're going to have to design this for rate, you're going to have to design this to scale. [23:28] Well, you start with the question of how would I manufacture it? That is a lens you take. [23:33] What we asked industry to do for nearly the last 40 years was, how could you design the most high-end Swiss watch of a weapon or an airplane? [23:41] We just had capability at any price. [23:44] And we're shocked to find out that you can't mass produce Swiss watches. It's like crazy. It's just not how this works, right? Like you have to tie it to the scale of industrial capacity that exists. [23:53] It's always going to be defense exotic stuff. There isn't a lot of commercial market for solid rocket motors and explosive warheads. But now you're down to a solvable set of problems. So we've really looked at this question of how do you design this first and foremost to tap into scale? [24:08] Once you're there, then, okay, is there enough composites capacity or printed circuit board capacity in the U.S. or CNC shops? The answer is... [24:16] Absolutely, yes. There is definitely enough capacity. [24:19] But then you get to the problems that defense can't solve. And this is the rare earth, the germaniums, the magnets. [24:26] all these different issues, and then you get to semiconductors. These are national policy issues. [24:31] "You have to solve this at a commercially viable level, [24:33] not at a defense specific level. It will always then be too expensive and unproducible if you just have a defense exquisite magnet factory. Like that doesn't work. You need a commercially viable magnet factory that defense uses. That is in

[24:45] U.S. or allied territory that you have faith in. [24:47] All right. [24:49] Industrial policy things that now [24:52] For the first time in decades, we've [24:54] you know, [24:55] taken honestly the fact that China wasn't playing the free trade game that we were playing, [24:59] that they were [25:00] using their state power [25:02] to create dependence on [25:04] their supply chains and that this is a problem. That we do not have the resilience we actually need [25:11] For defense, [25:12] but even just trade negotiations, we saw how it played out. Now imagine we wanted to put economic sanctions on them if they were doing something nefarious. [25:19] No one would get iPhones, no one would get cars. [25:22] it completely hamstrings our ability [25:25] to act independently as a nation, [25:27] to [25:28] just basically penalize bad behavior. We just lose all that leverage. [25:31] So this has to be a lens that as a country we take, and there's a different world, it will make people uncomfortable, it will take time to figure out how to do it. [25:38] But that is a critical national policy issue that has to be addressed. [25:41] - So you started off as an engineer at Palantir, and now you're the CEO of Andurl. [25:47] What is the biggest lesson that you learned and how has that shaped [25:51] your leadership. [25:53] The biggest lesson from Palantir was really this focus on [25:57] talent, which often can be [26:00] Everyone says it. [26:02] In practice, it's a lot more annoying [26:04] then [26:06] you would think, because often the talented people [26:09] just super opinionated, they're kind of aggressive, they tell you you're dumb, like it doesn't always feel good. And it just feels a little chaotic in high entropy.

[26:19] But this was like the beauty that I think CARP really recognized [26:23] and drove at Palantir, which was this notion of [26:25] I'll just have really brilliant people that are highly empowered to own problems. [26:30] probably the number one lesson in how we run things here, or what I've seen really work is, [26:37] often middle management and these companies that scale, they get so locked into the system and stability [26:44] that they [26:46] They think they're getting talent, but they're not getting creative talent. They're getting talent that is good as optimizing the system as it exists. But the world changes. Things get hard. [26:54] You got to adapt and you just crushed out all of that talent in your organization. [26:59] With Anderle, we are constantly inventing new products. We're moving into like totally gnarly, hard political and geopolitical questions. And like, how do we thread these different strategies? [27:10] We're working on new forms of warfighting. That just requires constant creativity. If you don't have these just [27:15] brilliant people and give them space to actually do what they need to do. [27:19] and have the right ideas, it doesn't really work. And so that's the number one thing that I think I really learned [27:25] along the way that [27:26] It's probably one of the more non-obvious pieces that I think [27:29] most people get robbed. [27:31] Artistry and meritocracy. Artistry and meritocracy. [27:34] There you go. So as we wrap up, what are you most looking forward to with Anduril? [27:39] The next few years are [27:41] gonna see his [27:44] somehow it's just going to continue to accelerate. I didn't think it was possible. [27:48] But because we've been successful,

[27:50] We're getting pulled into bigger and harder and crazier problems. [27:54] And so over the next few years, we are going to become [27:58] so involved in nearly every aspect of US and international defense in a way that I think is going to be very positive for us, very positive for the world. [28:07] but just the sheer scale and breadth that we will be operating at, [28:11] that is extremely exciting for me. I just think [28:14] "We set up this company to have an impact [28:17] on the world to change deterrence, to change the trajectory of where defense was going, it feels like it is really happening now. Like it feels like we're at the scale and size that this is really moving the needle. And that is very exciting for me. [28:47] lays the groundwork so you can build, invest, and scale with confidence. [28:51] Carta's fund administration platform supports over 9,000 funds and SPVs, representing nearly $185 billion in assets under management, with tools designed to enhance the strategic impact of fund CFOs. For more information, visit carta.com slash sorcery. [29:09] that's [29:10] C-A-R-T-A dot com slash S-O-U-R-C-E-R-Y. [29:14] Some of you may not have heard this yet, but our sponsor Public just launched something called Generated Assets, and it brings AI into investing in a way I've honestly never seen before. Here's how it works. You type in an idea like AI-powered supply chain companies with positive free cash flow or defense tech companies growing revenue over 25% year over year. Public's AI then dispatches a swarm of agents that scan every single US stock, evaluates them, and instantly builds a custom index around your thesis. What really stands out is how clearly it explains

[29:44] why each stock is included. And before you invest, you can even backtest your idea against the S&P 500 so you're making decisions with real context, not just guessing. And beyond generated assets, Public lets you invest in stocks, bonds, options, crypto, all in one place. They'll even give you an uncapped 1% match when you transfer your investments over from another platform. If you want to build a portfolio that actually reflects your thesis, visit public.com slash sorcery. [30:10] Paid for by public investing. Full disclosures in the description. [30:14] - And you're creating a lot of financial momentum around it too with rumors of IPOs and fake SPVs. - Yeah, the fake SPVs are great. [30:23] uh... [30:24] if everyone [30:26] is slinging anduril stock that they don't have. My take on this is [30:31] There are just a handful [30:32] of these growth stage companies that are [30:35] doing very well in an outrageously large [30:38] you know, market, [30:40] with incredible momentum and track record of success. We are one of those few companies that are still private, right? And [30:46] That creates a ton of demand and interest. [30:50] It's a good problem. [30:51] means we just have unlimited capital to go [30:54] grow as fast as we need to. It's a great spot to be. [30:57] I don't know if it's the AI hype bubble, but all these massive valuations make me believe that Anderil's [31:03] incredibly undervalued. [31:05] What do you think? I always think we're undervalued. There's another lesson I learned from Karp, you're always undervalued. But it really just boils down to

[31:15] If you think we're going to continue to grow, and the world is going to need more of what we're doing, [31:20] we are undervalued. [31:21] If somehow you think the world is gonna say, "No, we're stopping and we're going back to the old," [31:27] old world, then we're probably overvalued. [31:29] I'd put my money and most of our investors put their money on [31:32] The world needs more and not less, and that seems very likely to be true. [31:37] Lovely place to end. Thank you so much, Brian. Awesome. Thank you. Hey, it's Molly. If you enjoy our interviews, check out our newsletter, sorcery.vc, where we deliver a once a week top deals and tech headlines email, and also go deeper on our podcast interviews. Subscribe to Sorcery today. And don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen. Link in description to sign up.