Ep 145: Feelings Check-In with @winny.eth on early stage building

[00:00] The Feelings Check-In is a podcast for people who love to listen to two women overshare about the challenges of building a business, navigating careers in tech, and trying to have a personal life. I'm Natasha Hoskins. I'm Dina Burke. And this is Boys Club. Wait, is it just Boys Club? It's just Boys Club. The Boys Club podcast? No. No. [00:21] Just boy stuff. [00:22] Hi. Hey. We have recorded this feelings check-in a little early because you're going to be on vacation next week, which I'm so happy for you. I know. I'm so excited. So when everyone is listening to this, I will be... [00:32] At Yellowstone. [00:33] logged off. I will be fully logged off. I mean, also, I will have no choice. There's not very much Wi-Fi. Exactly. Yeah. So my hand will be forced to... [00:43] put down the phone. [00:44] Wow. And just hang out with the... [00:46] Bison. I don't know. You've been to Montana. You know what about it. Yeah, it's so beautiful. You're going to have such a great time. I've been forced to log off because I don't know what's going on. I've called AT&T three times, but I have an international plan. But for some reason, my cellular was not working. As of yesterday, it stopped working. I got a text from you last night. I think I'm getting SIM swapped. [01:06] Yeah, it was really scary. DEF CON 5, sound the alarm. Ring the alarms. I rang the bell. I left my apartment. I hadn't noticed because I was on Wi-Fi and I just was working. And then around 11, I was like, you know what? I'm going to go downstairs. It's a really cute wine bar. [01:19] on my block and I was like, I'm going to go have a little nice chilled red, read my book and have a cigarette. And so I went down there and I got down there and I looked down at my phone

[01:31] And it was no service. [01:32] And I was like... [01:34] panicked, panicked because I have had service. And so I ran back upstairs and then texted you. And I was like, I think I'm getting SIM swapped. And then... [01:44] I called T-Mobile right away. And I was like, Hey, am I being swim soft? Like I don't have service, but I have this plan. And she was like, no, she was like so chill about it. And I was like, ma'am. And I'm like refreshing my coin base. Like, I'm just like, what would be the first thing they would go for? I don't know. And yeah, ma'am, I have 0.5 ETH in my mana mask that I desperately need to protect. I am curious if anyone's listening, like what the first thing you should [02:14] from two people who have been SIM swapped before, that if you're in the States, you go to the first place. [02:19] T-Mobile or whatever, your provider. You go in person as quickly as possible. In store as quickly as possible. [02:26] And, you know, not possible here. So I called them and they're like, you're not being so I'm soft. Like, I'm not really sure what's going on. Anyway, all of this to say, I haven't had any service. So all day today, just going around the city bliss logged off. And I'm also so proud of myself because for days I've been like, I don't need Google Maps. Like for the past week, I'm like, I really don't need Google Maps. I know how to get around. And then today couldn't have Google Maps and got all around the city. And I'm just like, wow, look at me. She's a native Persian. [02:56] on. Okay. Anyway, all this to say we have a great episode. [02:59] with Winnie.eth, the founder of Chipped. We recorded this a little early, but that's fine. Nobody, we didn't even really need to disclose that, but out of transparency, this is the feelings check-in. As many of you know, who are longtime listeners, we

[03:14] do the feelings check-in sometimes it's Dean and I, and sometimes we're, you know, friends, talk about their feelings as founders, as builders, as designers, as people in crypto. And so we had on Winnie today, who's working on her startup and in a very exciting and stressful moment, [03:30] in the life cycle of her startup and it was really nice to talk with her yeah it was that early early stage craziness when she talked about the mail it got triggered i got triggered i feel i feel that i can feel that viscerally so yeah she's very much in the trenches right now but so happy for her i'm so happy to see what she's building and was yeah really interesting like you see the persona of [03:53] and her tweets, and all her posts, and it's... [03:56] I think a different view to just have a one-on-one with that person and like, just ask, ask what, [04:02] what's going on. So I felt like I saw a different side and just really rooting for her and excited about what comes next. I have been told that... [04:12] This is sort of adjacent, but that the most loving thing you can do for someone to like show them love is when they are talking about something and... [04:21] It's clear that they're like working through something. And instead of like fixing it or even relating to them with your own story is just to respond by saying, tell me more. [04:32] And that like usually there's a lot more that people want to say, but they feel like maybe the other person doesn't want to hear it or they're feeling insecure about talking or whatever. And I feel like, [04:40] internet friends [04:42] That's sort of what we should be doing as we're actually getting to know them in person or more deeply is like, tell me more. Like your tweets are not all that you are. And who you are outside of that is important for like genuine friendships and just...

[04:56] A small note from last week's episode. I have gotten some... [05:01] like such unbelievable thoughtful responses from people that know me and are or some that know me well and then some people that were newer friends and yeah. [05:15] I just feel like so grateful for Boys Club and this community. It's really, it's genuinely a community of people. I just feel a real sense of love and appreciation for so many people who are in and around Boys Club and for the thoughtful, smart people. [05:31] women that surround surround us every day plus one 100% agree it's great to be here it really is okay enjoy the episode [05:42] Hey, Natasha. So a question we get asked a lot is, what do you look for in a crypto platform? So let's talk about it. Well, Dina, I look for a secure, no fuss platform that I can dive into right away. That's why I love today's sponsor, Kraken. If you're waiting for the right time to get into crypto, Kraken makes it super easy and intuitive to get started. Plus, if you get stuck, they have an award-winning client support team that's available 24-7, along with a bunch of educational guides, articles, and videos to help you along the way. If you're ready to check out [06:11] kraken.com backslash boys club and see what crypto can be not investment advice crypto trading involves risk of loss cryptocurrency services are provided to us and us territory customers by payward ventures incorporated pvi dba kraken view pvi's disclosure at kraken.com backslash legal backslash disclosures on today's podcast we have a very special guest winnie dotty is joining us

[06:41] Winnie. [06:42] Thank you so much for having me, guys. I am so excited to be here. We're so excited to have you. I want to start, though. You're the founder of Chipped. And before we get into it, I would love to hear for the listener who's... [06:54] in the dark on what Chipped is, give us a 101 on what you're building. [06:59] Uh, yeah. I mean, up until now, everyone's just thought that a chip is just an NFC chip in a set of press on now that you can link to any of your socials. But underneath all of that, we've been building out a social aggregation protocol that allows you to create off-chain attestations that then creates Pals, proof of IRLs that then lends points to your on-chain reputation. Can you say a little bit more about Pals? Is it like I'm getting kind of Po-App vibes, but is that not the right way to be thinking about it? [07:29] level so everything that you do is actually off-chain but secured by your private key. So we're using AES as a station so when you meet someone they tap your nail with your phone and you connect with someone that will create a pearl when you add notes and a selfie to anything else in your Rolodex that creates a pearl which then yeah adds points that we have internally which may lead to something in the future that all adds to your on-chain reputation so you can connect

[07:59] yassifying the concept of wildcoin but yeah it just creates you know high signal it's high signal wallets [08:05] And that's all living in your profile on Chipped? Yes. Okay. Amazing. Is there like a social component to the platform or will there be in the future where you're able to sort of see the [08:17] other people like is there a social graph element to the end state of the product [08:22] Yes, absolutely. So everything that we're doing right now is private, but there might be an option to make it public in the future, just depending on what people expect from their connections. The whole thing was like everything that we do doesn't need to be public. It doesn't need to be on chain anymore. I feel like that's a very 2021 way to look at it. Everyone loved to put up in 2021 because I was here, I did this, I did this. But now I feel like we're going back to that privacy layer, which I really love personally. But another way that we can look at it is all these social graphs that you are creating and when you're connecting with these wallets, say, you're going to be able to look at it. [08:51] You log on to Farcaster for the first time and you don't know who to follow besides just who Dan's friends are. You can take your social graph that you've created of people that you've genuinely chosen to connect to and then import that social graph. You're like, oh, sick. I have all of these people that I already have met. I can see that they're all connected to Farcaster and that can show up and you can follow them there. Cool. Cool. [09:12] Well, I'm so excited for you. It's been so fun to watch you build from an outsider's perspective and feel like you're true consumer crypto builders. And obviously, we love that at Boys Club. And it's been so, so, so fun to see what you're shipping and what you're doing and just really, really rooting for you. Thank you so much. It's been, it's been a journey.

[09:42] at this really special moment in being an early stage founder where my understanding is that you just opened up sales for. [09:49] your first product, [09:50] Yeah. [09:51] You just pitched at Seed Club Demo Day to hundreds, thousands of people. I want to start, like, how are you feeling in this moment? Feelings check in. There's a lot of momentum, a lot of excitement. [10:03] How's it feel for you? [10:04] I've got to that point where I can mentalize everything. And it's like all these feelings that you think are going to bring you like, [10:12] Immense joy, just don't. [10:14] after like demo day you think there's going to be this rush issue for it oh it's just another day I've had a startup before and I used to have those moments but my prefrontal cortex hadn't developed so I was thinking about this this morning I was like oh it's different now I'm 27 you're like I've lived and I've learned a little bit well I'm just really excited I think it's just there's a lot of moving parts and figuring them out at the same time it is really fun I'm having a lot of fun [10:44] but we're moving through those at like a very healthy rate. So we've got about 100 orders going out tomorrow, which I'm really excited about. That's incredible. And then we're doing like click and collect the ECC. So... [10:57] It's been really fun. I really enjoyed the product side the most physically having something like everything that we do on chain. I've worked on like NFT projects and stuff that's been. [11:06] very purely online and you don't get that same joy [11:09] And that same frustration, I guess, because when code doesn't work, you can run it again. When product doesn't fit, you have to wait six weeks to order a new one, which is, I would say, moving with that. The thing that has been the bit that got me the most, my COO, after demo day, she was really emotional and I didn't feel anything. And I was like, it's going to catch up to me at some point. There's going to be one thing.

[11:29] that derails me. [11:30] And it was the packaging. And I literally have it right here. So obviously I tweeted about like this pink packaging that I was freaking in love with. It looks, I saw the tweet, it looks incredible. So when you're dealing with supply chain and communication can be really difficult sometimes. So what I thought, so this is the internal boxes, which I also love. It comes with everything. Oh, nice. [11:51] And they gave us the wrong measurements for this. [11:54] Hmm. [11:55] So when I got this and I realized it didn't fit, I had a bit of a breakdown. Oh, no. Okay, so for the listener, there's a really nice black box. Almost looks like a jewelry box in some way, which the nails go into. And then there's a paper casing around it that the box would... [12:14] ideally fit into. And in this case, [12:17] It seems that's not going to work. That's so sad. Oh, my God. Devastating. [12:23] It's very devastating. I'm like, when it comes to these kinds of things, it's, I think it's one of my biggest faults. I'm very much a perfectionist in like the product side. And I'm just like, [12:33] This has been months, months, months, months. And it's the one thing that didn't work. So I have a question for you. When this happens, the box doesn't fit. It's upsetting. Are you calling someone? [12:44] Are you just like sitting alone in your room? [12:46] thinking about things. [12:48] Do you cry? What happens? Go for a run. [12:51] nice nice go for a run because that is i find like the only time where you're able to have you're not on your phone you're not doing anything i like to refer to when you deal with the brain you've got the onion layers and then techno is really great for just drowning out those like top few layers like to drown that out and then just come up with a solution so okay so you're putting some techno music on and you're going for a run that's what she's up to honestly same what's the plan about the packaging you're going to order some new ones

[13:20] So ordered some new ones. The people who did the black ones are actually going to redo the pink ones. And it's really funny to look at really small things being really big at the time. Be like, that's so stupid that I was upset about that. But yeah, that's all going to get redone. They're just going to go out in the black box now because this is fine. The main reason that we did the pink boxes was so that when it comes to collaborations, we can just change that one really quickly. [13:42] and like at a much lower cost. So it's like everything can be customized on that level quickly for collabs, but maintain something that takes longer to produce on the inside. It was sticking at like beta supply chain. [13:53] So are you personally managing the relationships with the vendors? You're sourcing the nails, the chips, the boxes. How maybe you've done that before and you have some experience in it. But if not, how has that been to learn it? So, yeah, we made the decision in January to kind of take everything in-house just because from like an ethical and control standpoint that we knew where everything was coming from. [14:23] disruption especially when you're dealing with China and understanding what goes on so yeah just taking control of that was really really important for us so I've never worked in supply chain before and to be honest didn't really know where to start but it's been a good couple of months of just learning what it means to iron out these processes and yeah I'm feeling I'm feeling really good about it and developing those relationships with those with the vendors is just incredibly important I feel like one of the marks of an entrepreneur is that you just figure it out as you go and all of

[14:53] didn't know, you figure out and the next day you know them and then you keep going. And I think, especially when it comes to like physical products and supply chain and vendors and manufacturing, that's even tenfold. It's such an interesting and different set of problems than when you're developing software. And as you were saying before, like, okay, something goes wrong with the physical product, like you're six weeks out with code. There's like a different set of issues and time and resourcing that has to go into that. And what's interesting about Chipped [15:23] problem sets right now or both those opportunities as well, which I imagine is really fun and really interesting, but also really challenging as well. So I'm curious, how have you built your team? I know that you over the last few months have been building your team. So curious what that experience has been like and if there's been any shift for you emotionally around having some additional support apart from it just being you on your own. I think it's building a team has been like the one of the most [15:49] Like, that sounds really... [15:51] obvious, but I'm very much one of those people that thinks, "Oh, I can do all of this myself." [15:57] Oh my God, no I can. To be able to just give someone who believes in the vision, to trust them, to be like, hey, can you just do this for me? It opens up so much like mental space that even if you're not doing it, the mental load of it being needing to be done has been like so much. I hate making decks so much. And to just be able to just say to our designer. [16:19] Hey, can you just make the deck for me and then I can just fill it out? Because I just don't even know where to begin with putting all this information to one place. And it's weighing on me so much that it's stopping me from doing other things. But with building the team, I've been really lucky in the fact that, because I've been in this space for so long and I just know some really

[16:35] great people. I was like, hey, do you want to come and work on this with me? Even if it was part time or freelance work, it's just like, yeah, I would, I would love to. And I think [16:43] We're really lucky that we have raised like a small pre-seed, which allowed me to just genuinely hire good people who are especially native to the space. I didn't want to be one of those projects that just goes on to Fiverr and hires cheap dev because they can. It's having someone who is crypto native as a developer who understood it. [17:00] is was really important like the one thing that i genuinely know that i struggle with sometimes is trying to communicate what i'm trying to say because it's all in my head and i think that [17:07] Just by saying it, people will get it. Working with a team who can understand what I'm trying to say enough. [17:12] has been really important. What other things besides maybe the box cover and, you know, obviously recruiting and like the challenges of onboarding and communicating with the team, like what else is... [17:24] is keeping you up at night as an entrepreneur. I'm so curious. Oh God, the American paperwork system. What people don't know is having your own business is just a ton of paperwork. Oh my God. So obviously I am not American, but we have a Delaware registered LLC and I'm terrified of getting in trouble. I am a middle child in a military family. Like I don't want to get told up. Trying to do everything as by the book as possible when you're not a resident here is incredibly difficult. [17:54] And they don't make it easy either. Oh my God. I was on the phone. I'm trying to book an appointment with the IRS because I have to physically go in because they have to like physically validate my passport. So I call yesterday and I'm on the hold for 30 minutes. I get through to a guy and he's, oh yeah, cool. Let me just like put you on hold for a second while I just sort this one thing out. And I was like, great. Thanks so much.

[18:12] I'm going to hold for three more minutes. He comes back. He's like, thanks for holding. Hangs up. [18:16] No! [18:18] And then I called and they're like, this number is experienced high core volumes. Please go back tomorrow. And I was like, [18:23] I'm going to kill someone. Oh, no. I so remember... [18:27] When Dean and I were working on our different startups prior to Boys Club, and this is many, many, many years ago when we first became friends, and we would bond over a fear of checking the mail. Like we'd get all this mail around like workers comp, workers compensation. Yeah. And just random stuff. Your Delaware state tax filing. Once you're like in the swing of it, you're like, okay, I know what to do with this. And, but like the first time you're doing it, you're getting all these notices and you're just like, I don't know what this is. And I don't want to have a [18:57] thousand dollar bill because I filed something incorrectly or do I ask my accountant about this or do I ask my lawyer about this and I don't want to ask my lawyer about this because that's going to be a fifteen hundred dollar bill just for him to look at it and say you didn't need me to look at this and I remember being so so stressed out constantly to check the mail and literally just avoiding it and being like it'll figure itself out so I really really resonate with that feeling and I can't even imagine an added layer of not being a citizen and there being additional layers [19:27] than it already is. And I'm sure many other entrepreneurs have felt the same. What do you feel most proud of right now? When we started doing this about eight months ago, I had no idea where to even begin, which is when we reached out. [19:39] to other people for help and realized that the people that we were asking for help didn't have our best interests at heart and making that decision, because I'm again, scared of

[19:50] Sometimes I have a fear of upsetting people or like, I was actually, no, I've got to do this so much for me that this is my baby. I need to do what's best for this. And then just making those decisions to just, we've just got to figure this out ourselves. [20:02] I think just being able to go through that process and just cracking on with it. The two weeks before demo day is all a blur for me now. The whole locked in meme is such a meme, but it's so true. To be able to know that I can just push myself to that point of just being like, [20:14] So focused and to just be able to deliver a product in such a short timeframe as well is, is probably, probably it. It's something that I'm getting increasingly excited to talk about, but we got a message the other day from. [20:28] a brand that I really, really want to work with. And it's like kind of the standard that I've been holding what we're doing to, and to just see that they see what we're doing and to hopefully for that to turn into [20:39] The one thing that I want more in the entire world is like, oh, sick. We've done that so early. Think about what we can do in the next six months, the next two years. Really exciting. I'm curious for you when you're thinking about the roadmap of what you're building. And obviously, I think so much a part of what early stage development [20:54] startups are is putting things out, seeing what clicks, and then using the feedback that you're getting to make decisions about your roadmap. But if everything goes to plan, is the concept for you more, okay, we're going to be continuing to build out this protocol layer that's about on-chain reputation and potentially a social graph and that being tied to the physical product of a [21:14] press on nail or is the thinking like, okay, there's that protocol is one layer, but what we want to be doing is building out a lot of different types of physical products that then plug into that protocol. I'm curious, it might be that the development is going to happen simultaneously on both sides, but do you have a vision of what for you takes priority of where maybe you think the bigger opportunity is or where you want to spend most of your resourcing on which side of that equation?

[21:37] Yeah, I mean, we've had a definite separation of church and state is the way that I have kind of put it. Chipped being the consumer product and then the protocol, gossip protocol, which is what's underneath, is very much at the crypto layer. And right now I'm very much focusing on the e-commerce side and the... [21:53] actual physical product side of things because we've actually just built what I think is an incredible tool for onboarding. [21:58] So when you do create an account, you don't even realize, if you're not signing in with your wallet and you're signing in with Frivi, you don't even realize that it's a crypto product. And I think that... [22:06] you know, meeting consumers where they are with a product that enhances their current habits instead of trying to force them and change them or hyper-financialize them. That is where I see the most opportunity for growth. It's just creating like [22:17] a viral product worthy of the mainstream internet that can relate to the generation. Like I say, it's even past my generation now. It's the younger generation who are so internet native and they totally understand how to use an NFC chip. Unlike some people who are even like my age don't even understand how to just tap something and that it works instead of opening up your camera. We're looking at, you know, a virality component, which of course will have its life cycle and will die. But that's why we also want to build [22:43] other products. I've had like some chains come to me and be like, hey, we want to put this in rings and do this. I'm like, you have to build out another entire supply chain right now, which is not where my best interests are for like, oh, let's do 2000 rings for an event. That is going to take the same amount of building that it took to get [22:59] the nails done and like I don't have the capacity to do that while we're trying to scale this product. We're very much looking at it in cycles. This will live to a point and then it might die off and then

[23:09] You know, ideas are... [23:10] abundant. We are really lucky to have such a creative team who are always coming up with something great. And that's why like also when we're looking at social graph protocol, [23:17] That can be plugged into so many things as well. So even if we do partner with someone who's already creating NFC based products, we already have the software that we can then plug in. And eventually I do want to make gossip as an open source thing to build on. And then that's obviously when you do start doing with tokens and build on incentivizations to come in and build stuff. [23:34] at that layer. So that's what excites me the most. I think, yeah, right now, especially when we look at collaborations with chains and other projects, it is very much we want to be seen as like a marketing and a vibes tool. So we have some protocols who are coming to us and they're like, oh, we want to offer you the opportunity to apply for a grant for you to build with us. And I'm like, that's not aligned with our incentives right now, because we also have to deal with the physical [24:04] DAO voting process for my dev to spend two months on something to [24:09] implement into your chain just doesn't align with what we're trying to build but like say you wanted to spend that two grand on doing an event together like devcon where we did some branded nails and we could do a small element on chain then we can see like what the sentiment is of the community to then implement we're trying to find the in-between of like the chicken and egg situation what comes first the vibes of the chain and i definitely think like the vibes come first and then we can look at like

[24:39] you [24:41] It's time for a more open, inclusive, and transparent financial system. A system that serves nearly everyone, everywhere, all the time. That's why we love today's sponsor, Kraken. Kraken is a crypto platform that provides a super simple on-ramp to the world of crypto with a 24-7 support team. Crypto transcends physical and imaginary borders. No matter where you are, you can send funds easily and quickly to almost any part of the world. Plus, forget about waiting times and waiting lines. You can send, receive, and trade crypto anywhere near instantly. [25:10] be at kraken.com backslash boys club non-investment advice crypto trading involves risk of loss transfers to a third party are not available on kraken cryptocurrency services are provided to us and us territory customers by payward ventures inc pvi dba kraken view pvi's disclosures at kraken.com backslash legal backslash disclosures it's so interesting to hear what you're sort of wrestling with in the trade-offs of these different approaches so let's fast forward three years [25:40] look like? I do want Chip to be, there is so much more that I want to grow it into. It's the internet like, you know, aligned with what I can see what Boys Club's vision is to be like the it girl. [25:51] Like you've got the it girl brand of the internet. I, we want you to do like the it girl products. So to be able to just create products that show that you are aligned with the future of what tech is going to be wearable accelerationism. It's going to happen anyway. And are we just going to keep letting these hideous eye goggles be the future of.

[26:12] wearable tech like the idea of us taking technology and putting it into things that we already have every day like even just thinking about the now there is so much free real estate [26:23] on here. There is so much space that we can do that is more than just an NFC chip. I just think there's a really beautiful way that fashion is going. We're looking at like armor. We're looking at like so many different things that can look so much cooler. So right now it's like cool. This is like a really non-threatening way of getting people to use wearable technology. There is just such an abundance of things that we could put this technology into in the future. It's exciting. Winnie, thank you for coming on. So excited for you and Chipped. We're so rooting for you. And thanks for taking the time. Thank you so much for having me guys. It's been great. [26:53] Bye.