Ep 117: Too Online [Moving To A New Feed!] 1) Ballerina Farm and Fish Fraud 2) Chicago Rat Hole

[00:01] - Welcome to Two Online by Boys Club. - Hot internet news served fresh. I'm Natasha Hoskins. - I'm Dena Burke. - And this is Boys Club. [00:11] Wait, is it just boys club? It's just boys club. [00:14] The Boys Club podcast? No. No. [00:16] Just Boys Club. Guess what? Boys Club is doing our very first conference called Brand New. Dina, what are we going to be talking about? So we're going to be covering a lot of the stuff that we cover on this podcast. Crypto, of course, the new internet, digital culture, emerging technology. We'll be at the Austin proper on March 12th. And we're pulling in some of the smartest people we know. It's going to be very fun. [00:46] now today go buy your ticket members and daddy holders get special pricing and if you aren't a member you can apply to attend brand new so go to boys club.vip backslash brand new link and show notes to get all the details and can't wait to see you in austin yeah hi good morning [01:05] We're going to have to be fast about it because Dina's got a massage. Got to be in and out. I'm a lady of pleasure. [01:12] some uh chanam blanc at lunch okay so i want to say why i'm getting a massage oh i i yes no i just think cut it too it's important it was fine i'm fine with the people knowing that i get the occasional massage but here's why i live in tennessee in nashville it's a city that's wholly unprepared for any winter weather and we had a snowstorm last week and i'm

[01:36] It snowed four inches, five inches on Sunday night, and the schools have been closed all week. [01:41] Insane. [01:42] Insane and up until yesterday. [01:44] So a surprise week off with my two kids. The daycare was closed too. So have been juggling. [01:50] High stress. Totally. [01:52] And I thought... [01:54] you know what I actually had in a massage this massage that was booked for last week but I moved it and here we are today it's arrived it's well deserved and I'm glad it's here and I'm so glad you rescheduled because I could see you being like and never mind just cancel it and I would have been upset by that so I'm very I was very close to never mind [02:12] Yeah, I'm actually, I'm shocked. I'm shocked when I saw it on the calendar. I was like, oh, great, great. [02:17] Self-care, self-care. Okay, so we're here to online today, and we're going to be talking about our internet stories. This is a podcast where we share... [02:29] I like to call it an auditory for you page. We're sharing weird subcultures and funny new memes and internet culture. And it's a lot of fun. It's on a new feed. So follow along. [02:43] on that feed. [02:45] I last week I was listening to our podcast from Friday. I was like, oh my gosh, the first two minutes were like, so please, please. [02:58] Man, I'm sorry. I hate to be desperate about it. I know. It's so cringe. But anyway, it's all good. Do you want to go first or do you want me to? Sure. So stick around.

[03:09] Hey, Natasha, what is crypto to you? Crypto is so much more than charts and gains. It's a whole new financial system, entirely new technological rails to enable creativity, ownership, wealth building and more. Free of credit scores and spending habits, Kraken is your easy to use, newbie friendly bridge to this whole new world. Everything can be better. So why not finance? To get started, go to kraken.com backslash boys club, sign up in just a few minutes and see what [03:39] of loss. Cryptocurrency services are provided to U.S. and U.S. territory customers by Payward Ventures Incorporated, PVI, DBA, Kraken. I was telling my husband Dave a couple of ideas that I had for my stories this week and [03:53] I've landed on what I'm calling authenticity fraud. [03:56] And it's a tale of fraud in two parts. Two different takes on fraud. Cool. And Dave was like, you're one story away from... [04:03] This American Life episode. I needed an Ira Glass impression, which was very good. Do you listen to This American Life? I used to a lot. It's been a while since I have, but it's [04:12] A fantastic podcast if they're listening. So if you're familiar with this American Life format, they take a theme and they do lots of different ways in on that theme. So that's my approach today. I have a theme, authenticity fraud. Two wildly different approaches in onto fraud. Okay. The first one up is influencer fraud. [04:29] So I want to be really careful with the story. I've actually was up in the middle of the night for an hour and a half thinking about how to talk about the story today because I don't want it to come off like I'm piling on.

[04:39] Right. [04:40] an influencer, like, [04:41] shaming influencers or I don't know there's something about hating on influencers it's just like first base you know totally we're post shame here at boys club so we're post shame for some reason making fun of influencers is like punching down even though the person I'm going to talk about is a literal billionaire I it does it feels somehow like you know yeah it's just easy [05:00] It's easy. It's easy. And it's really easy to be snarky about influencers. So I will say that this story isn't [05:06] about [05:07] that it's kind of zoomed out but I do want to just make that preface which is like I don't [05:12] want. [05:13] All good. We got it. Okay. Sorry. I'm really, really conflicted. [05:17] Okay. So the reason that I chose the story is that there's a way that this particular influencer is presenting herself. She's leaving out a huge part of her story. Are you going to name names or? I'm going to. Yeah. Okay. Before I get into it, I want you to be thinking about the idea of authenticity online and how we present ourselves and like what we owe our viewers or the people that are watching or like what an influencer owes their audience, I think is kind of the [05:42] crux of the conversation that I want to have around this particular thing. Okay. So ballerina farms. [05:47] Okay. Are you familiar? Unfamiliar. Haven't seen a single video. Uh-uh. [05:51] Haven't heard the phrase. No. Fresh to it. Oh, wow. Okay, great. Great. Great. Valerina Farms is primarily this woman who does Instagram videos and TikTok videos. Her most iconic videos are cooking videos. And she is blonde, very beautiful woman, lots of kids around. She's making meatball sandwiches from scratch, making the bread from scratch, making the meatballs from scratch. And at first glance, when you first look at this video, you're like, oh, this is kind of a humble

[06:21] Like in a corner, the table that she's working on is wood. It just looks rustic. It looks like a kind of rustic vibe and [06:28] I don't know. There's something about it that seems very approachable. But then you stay there. You stay watching it and you're like looking at the details. And the first tell is that the stove behind her is an aga, which is like a $30,000. Like it's a $30,000. So like a bit of a tell. Yeah, it's a tell. You see the aga, but she's making stuff from scratch. Her kids are around. She's like clearly caring for the kids, at least in frame. And then you're watching more videos. [06:58] Her and her husband have this farm ranch thing and there's cut wildflowers here and geese and she's milking cows and trad wife. Totally committed to the bit. Totally. So then you're like, OK, what's going on here? And it turns out that her husband is the son of David Needleman, who is an airline entrepreneur who founded JetBlue, among other airlines. [07:21] Okay. So independently wealthy. Yeah. Like a lot of money, a lot of money. As soon as you see it, you're like, oh, of course their farm is beautiful. They have all these beautiful outbuildings. And so that's revealed. I spend a lot of time watching her videos yesterday. This isn't the type of content that I like, but I did it for listeners. For you all. And there's nowhere in the videos that she discloses that she is independently wealthy, at least that I can find. So it's not

[07:51] To be fair, how would you in a way that's not repulsive? Hey, just so you know, I'm... [07:56] super rich for doing nothing. Totally. I think that how you say it is hard, but... [08:03] They're... [08:04] is a dissonance in her leading this homesteading lifestyle. And then she has a farm shop where she's selling home goods and aprons and flowers and this thing. [08:14] BallerinaFarms.com. Shout out. They're very much like showing this farmer... [08:19] lifestyle yeah but it's a larp they don't have the financial stresses that family farms have i feel like this story is perfect for you primed primed and ready because for the listener who doesn't know [08:34] Dina's mom [08:36] And her partner... [08:37] Own a true working farm in upstate New York. [08:41] Like a genuine... [08:43] Not an aesthetic farm. Not an aesthetic farm. Yeah, they're real farmers and they work very, very, very hard and there's not a lot of money. How many acres? It's like a huge farm. It's a, yeah, 400 acre farm and it's been in Amy, my mom's partner's family for a generation. So [09:00] I, yeah, I've seen just how it's, it's family farms are, are really hard work. There's not a lot of money and the stakes are really high. You're just hanging out and then all of a sudden it starts hailing and you're like, oh shit, the, the, [09:14] The tomato crop is all going to be destroyed, like $100,000 in tomato crops can be destroyed because of the hail. And that's your only margin for the year. It's the money that you're hoping to make. There's like financial stresses in family farms that aren't subsidized by wealth, private wealth that isn't there for this woman. And it feels disingenuous in some way to be presenting as this homesteader.

[09:36] living a salt of the earth life, doing all this work, milking cows. [09:41] but not acknowledging that you're living actually isn't reliant on that work. [09:45] So... [09:45] whatever, it's like a narrative violation. It happens all the time. But I think the more interesting thing is that it isn't affecting her viewership. The question to me is, okay, TikTok videos and Instagram videos really only perform well when you are being authentic. Like, there's something that you can tell when you're in a swipe and you're like, someone's putting it on [10:03] or someone is in the moment of the video and is that's the type of content that I like to watch. And I think that her viewership from what I can tell has not gone down at all since this has been revealed. And now you look at her videos. So there was like a moment where it was like revealed. I think so. And now when you look at her videos, it says like ballerina farms, rich, you know, the search terms start to pre-populate. Everyone knows at this point and we're still watching her videos. And so I'm, [10:29] It's almost like in 2024, we need... [10:32] that authenticity [10:34] to watch something, but [10:37] were okay with that authenticity being just constrained to those 30 seconds or 45 seconds. It's almost like the rest of the story doesn't matter. And also what she owes her viewers. Maybe she doesn't owe her viewers anything, but it does reveal an inauthenticity, but I guess she's okay with that. I think that there's something that people know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't [10:57] about the content that they're watching at this point on these platforms where they know that they're [11:03] Not real. [11:04] Mm-hmm. [11:05] Any of it.

[11:06] Post-truth. It's post-truth, exactly. And there is... [11:11] levels of comfortability. I don't actually think it's authenticity that you're looking for to stop the scroll. I think it's like a level of comfortability with being on the camera and that comfortability comes through and is either funny or endearing or heartwarming or whatever it is. And [11:29] that, [11:29] Makes you enjoy it because I don't think that there's anyone in the world authentically making content online anymore. Like it's also performative. So I think there's something almost like relieving when people know, [11:42] This is entirely... [11:44] a snapshot. This is entirely fabricated. Not that this woman's whole life is fabricated, but the content that she's producing, it seems like very limited to a specific... [11:54] persona that she wants to have online. And I think when people... [11:59] know something about that person that they're watching, that they're not being transparent or revealing or outspoken about. There's something that's like voyeuristic and kind of enjoyable about like watching this person, knowing that there's more to the story and seeing that they're only showing you a sliver of it. Mm-hmm. [12:16] That it's like a meta. It's like a layer deeper where everybody's like, I'm in on the joke too. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so... [12:26] I think it's maybe more people's attraction to that feeling than necessarily... [12:31] buying what she's selling. And I also think there's something to like, once you know somebody's extravagantly wealthy,

[12:37] you become more interested in every aspect of their life. Matt and I were just watching Point Break, the tennis show. It's great. Everybody should watch it. But there's one tennis star. I can't remember her name, but she's ranked third. And she's very good. [12:51] She... [12:53] has a great episode. And part of the episode is that her father's a billionaire and he owns the bills and, um, [13:01] It's very much a part of the hate that she gets online where she's never won a major and people are like, I can't believe she's ranked so high when she's never won a major. [13:11] Whenever she loses, everybody's like, you can't buy a win. There's this whole thing about money and... [13:16] people's obsession with people with money. I felt it even when I was watching the show, I was like, what car is she driving? What does her house look like? What is she wearing? Just really intrigued by someone who doesn't have to think about money, what their life looks like. And I think that's probably part of what's happening with this woman as people find out is, oh, what would it be like to be [13:34] a life outside of the inconveniences that I think most people experience every day. [13:38] Yeah. [13:39] it's not authenticity that we're looking for. [13:42] comfort on camera. [13:43] Yeah. [13:44] I think it's more that because I think there's I can't actually think of one person who's like authentic on camera. [13:50] Yeah, what does authentic mean? [13:51] What does that even mean? I have no idea. [13:53] Okay, well, going to my next fraud take is... [13:58] This is a little bit of stretch. Okay. [14:01] It's a tiny bit of a stretch, but it has given me the opportunity to do one of my favorite things ever, which is talk about fish fraud.

[14:07] Have I ever talked to you about fish fraud? Fish, like the band? [14:10] No, like fish food. Oh my gosh. Yes. You've talked to me about this a lot. [14:15] Ha ha ha. [14:16] Okay. So I am calling this as a trend incoming fish fraud talk. It is catching steam on TikTok. I will say it not. Wow. Wow. Nice bit. It's quiet. It's quiet, but it's on the up and up. Can I just say, I do not like these stories. I eat a lot of fish. [14:34] I don't want to know. Okay, here's why you should care about fish fraud. Well, first of all, here's the background for folks that aren't familiar with fish fraud. This is basically about how fish fraud is rife. [14:46] I would say most of the fish that you're eating is mislabeled. [14:52] in some way, unless you're catching it from the trout stream, especially salmon. There's a lot of mislabeling around salmon and like wild or a king salmon or a king is it's from New Zealand. Salmon isn't native to New Zealand. It means it's farm raised. I love how you've chosen two topics that genuinely get you worked out. Fake farmers and fish fraud. So the mislabeling of fish is [15:20] What it results in is higher prices for the consumer. [15:22] Okay. So it means you should care about fish rod because it means you're paying more for fish [15:27] that doesn't, [15:28] exist that doesn't deserve that price point. And not only does that affect the consumer, it means that you're paying $46 for your wild salmon at a Williamsburg restaurant. It affects the whole supply chain down to the fishermen who is trying to sell the fish that they're catching, and they can't compete with the prices that fake fish are getting. And so they're being affected as well. And so it's hitting every point in the supply chain. And this is not to say like restaurants are also victims of fish fraud because they'll buy from suppliers who

[15:57] who are [15:58] mislabeling or misrepresenting the fish that they're selling so it's tough because it's hard to point to where in the supply chain that the fraud is happening and so i think this makes it a honestly like an intractable problem like you don't i don't yeah i personally don't know how to blockchain [16:14] blockchain solves this blockchain solves this um but the whole market for fish is skewed because of mislabling that's happening somewhere along the line so anyway i have been passionate about fish fraud for years and i was happy to see last night when i was doing my scrolling there is a woman who has taken arms and who's doing videos exposing fish fraud in grocery stores in restaurants and again like the people the restaurant owners or the grocery store owners might not know that they [16:44] that doesn't deserve that price, but it's happening. And this woman, shout out to her doing the good work. [16:49] who's just this i'll drop the link in the show notes okay so that's me [16:53] Wow. Two stories of fraud. Wow. I love it. I love it. When you're first getting started with crypto, it can be scary. Am I doing this right? Is this just like my bank or trading app? How is it new and different? Well, that's why we love Kraken. They have a 24-7, 365 customer support team that's there to hold your hand all along the way. This isn't a nine to five Monday to Friday bank. This is crypto. It's all the time. Anyone's welcome. Open door policy. Come one, come all. Try something

[17:23] involves risk of loss. Cryptocurrency services are provided to U.S. and U.S. territory customers by Payward Ventures Incorporated, PVI, DBA, Kraken. [17:34] Your story has had some, yeah, really hard hitting truths. My story is less... [17:38] important. Great. High and low. Okay. What I'm going to talk about today, [17:43] is [17:44] the rat hole in Chicago. Oh, thank God. Thank God. I've been waiting for this story. Great. So you're familiar. Feel good. Yeah. It's a feel good sort of story. There's some twists and turns. I got to tell you. Okay, great. Great. Great. Can't wait. Okay. So I'm just going to start by when you Google, this is what comes up pre-populated. The Chicago rat hole is a hole shaped like a rat in the sidewalk of West Roscoe Street in the Roscoe Village neighborhood of [18:14] it became a viral phenomenon on social media, mainly Twitter in January, 2024 attracting tourists to the site. So what I didn't know about this story is that this hole has been there for decades. And if you have not seen anything about the story, basically what, [18:33] There is... [18:35] a concrete sidewalk. And on this concrete sidewalk, there is a shape of what looks to be a rat. That is a hole in this. It's a simple, it's like molded into the sidewalk. Yes. It's, it's as uncomplicated as you could imagine. Don't get worked up. It's just very simple. And, [18:52] The story goes that this man named Winslow DeMaine, who every mainstream publication that has interviewed and talked to this man, refers to him as an artist. On his actual website, the first adjective that is used is comedian. So it's a little bit of, I think there's some performance art happening here. Okay, cool. Very cool. And he posted a picture in January earlier this month of this rat-shaped hole. And the tweet read, had to make a pilgrimage to the Chicago rat hole.

[19:22] Crowds, meaning Twitter, went absolutely wild. So this tweet goes viral and everybody starts to have an opinion about it and memes and funny pictures and [19:32] More than that, it's a true URL to IRL story where everybody then begins to go to this hole in Chicago. And then it gets covered by... [19:43] Every news outlet you can imagine from local news, Fox 32 Chicago to AP News, Chicago Sun Times, New York Times, CNN. They're all in-depth research and journalism. Information laundering. Information laundering. Exactly. It is exactly that. So the New York Times headline, Chicago's latest attraction question mark, a rat shaped hole. CNN rat impression in the sidewalk has the internet talking. People are running like rats to the rat hole. Chicago's latest selfie spot. [20:13] Moss reports on the road in attraction. And there's like a whole segment, like a new segment on what's happening. So as any good internet journalist would do, I took to Reddit to unpack what was happening here and to understand what was going on. And there's many things that I want to talk about, but one of the things specifically that I think is interesting about the story is it feels very contained to Twitter. [20:38] It didn't really extend that much from what I can tell to other platforms. This is a little bit of TikTok stuff, but mostly it stayed in the ecosystem of Twitter. And of course, Reddit, this is like primo fodder for Reddit users. And if you search Radhole in Reddit, Radhole Chicago in Reddit, there's...

[20:58] unending amount of content around it like with josh wine i had very limited options on on reddit this very different some things that populated on reddit here blessing the chicago rat hole which was people dressing up in what can only be described as like rat garb and going to this hole and blessing it in a [21:21] cult-like manner. Okay. With some of the comments being like, I feel our society is lacking harmless cults. I approve this. And then someone going, most cults start out harmless. Then they get powerful. This is dangerous. First you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women. And then someone said, this is a fucking squirrel. And then someone responds, hectic. Like people are having full-blown discourse around the rat hole. Another great Reddit thread, [21:51] Google Maps and I love it. There's an official location on Google Maps called the famous Chicago rat hole. Nice. [21:58] But my personal favorite is a tweet from [22:01] that showed up in... [22:03] one of these Reddit threads. It's a picture and the picture is a wedding, two men getting married. There's balloons in like a balloon bouquet, you know, gender reveal, think gender reveal, like a balloon arch, a balloon arch. Exactly. Two men in suits, all dressed up with an officiant getting married. And the tweet reads, they're doing a gay wedding at the Chicago Red Hole, which I love. This made it to TikTok. This of course made it. There's a 14 second video. And

[22:33] to TikTok. So anyway, so this is, it's fun. It's funny. People are going, doing weird stuff at this hole. They're putting coins in it. They're putting alcohol in it. They're doing weird, stupid seances. They're getting married. Can I tell you what I like about it, about the right hole? Tell me. So I live in Nashville and... [22:50] there is a lot of try hard tourism that happens in the city. [22:54] People painting selfie murals and people creating tours of walking tours of this and that and like fake pictures. [23:03] tourism attractions that are contrived. Yes. And that people pay a lot of money to like try and build up something so that they can basically attract more people to their whatever hot chicken restaurant. And I think that what I find so charming about the Brat Hole is that it's a totally organic movement. [23:19] And that there's no venture capital that's behind this. Andreessen Horowitz has nothing to do with this. Exactly. Exactly. [23:28] That's, I love that take. Okay. So then this is when the rat hole takes a turn. As they always do. As it always does. So then I stumble upon a Reddit thread that says, A gentle plea from the rat hole residence. [23:41] And now you start to think about people and their lives. And this is from a resident who lives in the apartment building right above the rat hole. I did see in the wedding... [23:55] image I'm like there's someone's window right there [23:58] Right there. And this woman, I think it's a woman, a person goes on to

[24:05] explain the insanity that they have been experiencing over the past few weeks and this person i don't know why i keep thinking it's a woman but she they say hey everyone i live in a three flat directly in front of the chicago rat hole i came here to politely ask that you please stop congregating partying and getting married in front of our house my neighbors and i have been struggling and then she goes on to bullet point all of the things that they've been dealing with [24:35] was your front porch or not even sidewalk stoop. Yeah, bad. She was like, at first this was fun and funny and lighthearted, [24:44] And then she goes, quote, but now the internet has learned about it and taken it way too far. [24:52] so then she's basically saying like i don't want this hole to be filled but we need to all take it down like please take it way down chill chill out please yeah and then she updates it [25:03] And the update basically reads the hole has been filled. And yes, but more, there's more. So I was, I was, as I was writing and doing my research, I said, the final update here, the hole has been filled January 19th, just three days ago. The Chicago rat hole is no longer a hole. It appears to be filled. And that is reporting from the New York times. [25:23] Okay. So you're like, wow, the rat hole has been filled. Yeah. [25:27] But then... [25:28] Another New York Times article. Someone filled the Chicago rat hole, period. [25:33] Residents took action, period. People then came back to the hole and tried to dig it out.

[25:38] Oh. [25:41] So it's a little flip-flop. Like concrete? How is that even possible? It's unclear to me exactly how. This is what my hypothesis is. This is totally just not reporting. [25:52] my general guess. So the resident said that they got a message from the county saying that the concrete slab was going to be replaced, the whole slab. Oh, okay. But then the reporting was that the hole was filled. [26:06] So my thinking is someone who lives in the neighborhood filled it with concrete DIY. [26:12] Oh, that they went in and they were like, this red hole has got to go. I'm sick and tired. I'm sick and tired. And they filled it. A DIY situation. Then it was very cold. There was ice got frozen over. I don't know. [26:26] And these people are not professionals, I don't think. In my guess, again, hypothesis. And then I think people went back and tried to dig through the ice and tried to dig it out. And that's the story is developing, but that's where we're at. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Did you know all the things? [26:46] I had stopped at the gay wedding. And that was peak rat hole for me. But thank you so much for filling me in on the rest of it. If anyone lives in Chicago... [26:57] I don't know, maybe don't go down there because I don't want to upset anyone, but would be curious to see like what the state of it is. [27:03] There's a few things that I feel about this. [27:05] One, well, first my personal exposure to this. I had not been following the rat hole story.

[27:11] But what's so funny to me, and I guess what speaks to my... [27:16] knowledge of the internet is the only exposure I saw was the rat hole wedding. And without even knowing the rat hole was going on, [27:25] I saw this and I saw that tweet that said people are getting married at the Chicago rat hole. And it took me all but two seconds to understand, Oh, there's some hole that looks like a rat. People are excited. [27:37] And I was like, I get it. Totally get it. Don't need to really know more. Yeah. I think it speaks to people's need for an outlet that is meaningless. People really need a valve. [27:47] that has no depth to it but then we take it too far and then people get hurt and that's what happens but my two favorite tweets from it are i love when people take two memes that are happening at the same time and a mashup exactly and this is a mashup that i personally love and both of these are very underrated tweets this one only has eight likes it is the video of the rat dancing in the rain [28:12] that people are loving and sharing everywhere, which has a ton of memes. And someone said, is this how the Chicago rat hole was made? Which I think is very funny and very original, original take. The other one that I think is so good. And I am so sad that this person hasn't gotten more love for it. Only two likes, one of them being me. And it is from an account called denim dust for your health. I don't know anything about this person. If they're problematic, forgive me. I, this is the only tweet I've seen from them. And it is, if you're an SNL watcher,

[28:42] That's the only way that you're going to think this is funny, but it's Stefan. [28:45] this character Stefan from SNL who does like, he goes on and he like always covers his mouth and he talks about like crazy attractions that are happening in the city. And he's very flamboyant about it. And the quote goes Chicago's hottest club, which is always how he starts like New York's hottest club and describes really, really bizarre things. He's like Chicago's hottest club, the rat hole. It has various coins and tokens. It has gay weddings and proposals. And he like goes on and on and on. [29:15] hole and a great tweet that didn't get enough love so that's my story there it is thank you so much for reporting i i i feel fully briefed great great great okay well with that there we are that's two online [29:30] Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening. Bye.